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  • Council lost paperwork!

    Don't want to hijack that other thread but...

    You're right, and this happened in 1991 and the scout in question was me. Short story, finished everything prior to 18, sent paperwork to council as they did eagle bor, council lost paperwork, sent paperwork in 2nd time, council lost it, hand delivered paperwork ON my 18th birthday, council lost it a 3rd time and told me I was SOL since I turned 18. Told me they didn't believe me that I ever did the project. SM did not get involved. Parents drove down to council HQ and had to force a meeting with council exec who was of no help and provided no reason other than, "he's 18 now". And we believed him. So that was it.

    I do know that technically I can still go for the BOR through national since it has been more than 6 months since I turned 18 (21 years actually). The only limit on 18 is to complete all requirements, BOR can happen after and there is precedence for people going for eagle BOR many many years after. I have checked into it. But now I have lost my paperwork so I can't prove that I did anything (though I could dig up the old newspaper article if i can find an old paper). Have not checked if council "found" my records and if it is in their files or not. I heard many councils as directed by national destroyed old records years ago. This was Pine Tree Council, Maine - Jan-Feb 1991.

    It bothers me to this day since I consider myself an Eagle Scout, but I can not say that I am when asked. But with limited time now to devote to Scouting do I spend my time fighting with a council in a different state over a 21 year old issue or do I focus my energies on the kids in my unit and make sure something like this does not happen to those kids.

    When I first got my son involved in Tigers I was explaining to him about scouting and he asked, "Daddy, do you have your Eagle"? I had to say "No". So his reply was, "That's OK, I'll get mine!". That works for me (though i'd still like mine!)


  • #2
    OUTDOORS,

    I know of only one precedent for an Eagle to be awarded years after the Scout turned 18 due to the situation you described: Col. Mitchel Paige, USMC (Ret.)

    From http://www.nesa.org/paige.html

    Mitchell Paige

    When Mitchell Paige completed the requirements for Eagle Scout in 1936, he didn't hound his Scoutmaster to make sure the paperwork went through�he had more important things to do. On his 18th birthday, he walked 200 miles from his home in McKeesport, Pennsylvania, to Baltimore, Maryland, to begin a Marine Corps career that included his receiving the Medal of Honor. For years, he referred often to being an Eagle, but decades later Paige, now 74, discovered that his paperwork had never been completed. He told his story to a friend, who helped him piece together the missing paper trail, and then to North Florida Council Scout Executive John Reesor, who helped him complete the 67-year-old paperwork. Paige received his long-awaited Eagle Scout Award at a council banquet the following spring, and was recognized in May at the BSA's National Annual Meeting, when he received the Distinguished Eagle Scout Award. Col. Paige passed away on November 15, 2003.

    Comment


    • #3
      The new Guide to Advancement lays out the procedures to receive a belated Eagle.

      8.0.3.1 Eagle Scout Board of Review Beyond the 18th Birthday
      ...
      3. It is possible for those who completed the requirements for the Eagle Scout rank in their youth, but never received it, to obtain credentials necessary for acquiring it. If a board of review was not held, one may be requested. In any case, all requirements must have been completed before age 18. Using the Belated Eagle Scout application, No. 512-076 (see 11.3.0.0), evidence of completion must be submitted to the national Advancement Team through the local council where the individual resides. An Eagle Scout Rank application signed at the time work was finished can serve as evidence of requirements such as active participation, Scout spirit, or positions of responsibility.
      Blue cards, advancement reports, or troop records may be used for merit badges. Because of their availability on the Internet, actual merit badges or sashes are not normally accepted. Once documentation is verified as complete and compelling, credentials can be released or permission granted for a board of review. Requirements in effect at the time of membership are used, but regardless the practices of the day, all must have been accomplished by age 18.

      On page 71 of the G2A you will find the Belated Eagle Scout Rank Application.

      Comment


      • #4
        While I think the belated Eagle thing is good.....I also think it is ripe for abuse.

        Comment


        • #5
          Base,

          I agree it is ripe for abuse. But I also know someone who had a similar situation to OUTDOORS. I do not know the full story behind him not getting Eagle, but I have my suspicions.

          Comment


          • #6
            I took Wood Badge in 1985. Shortly before the dealine for completing my ticket, I was contacted by a Wood Badge staffer and verified that I had completed all the ticket items.

            After that.... nothing.

            In 2004 I got back into Scouting. After two or three years, I started making inquiries about getting the Wood Badge paperwork completed and getting beaded. About 2007 or so, one of the Wood Badge staffers still active in the district dug out his old paperwork verifying that I had completed the requirements and arranged a beading ceremony, which I appreciated a good deal.

            So the beading ceremony took place something like 22 years after the date of the course!

            Comment


            • #7
              I do not see how submitting credentials years later is more "ripe for abuse" than the current system for Scouts. Implicitly, the same standards will be applied to the much-more-difficult task of credentialing late. One either can produce the goods to the present standard or not.

              Comment


              • #8
                Out,
                Your situation sounds more optimistic than my brother's. (SM went AWOL with blue cards. Bro had to move on to college then sail a destroyer 'round Vietnam.)

                If you unearth your paperwork, give it a go. At the very least, your son should be handed down the newspaper clipping of your project. If this exercise only results in you doing that, it would be worth the trouble.

                Comment


                • #9
                  While maybe not the same thing.
                  I ran into a guy who works at another jail. He said he was from the small town where I now live and after chatting for a while we found out the my Brother-in-law had served as his SM.
                  Seems that my BIL lost all this fellows paper work and soon after quit and the Troop folded.
                  This was back in 1980 and the guy is still upset.
                  Eamonn.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It's bad when the youth for whatever reason fail to complete something.

                    It's terrible when the "Adults" fail the youth by simply not following through.

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                    • #11
                      Lesson to be learned by all here, hopefully:

                      MAKE SEVERAL COPIES OF EVERYTHING!

                      (Shouting AND emphasis!!!)

                      Digitally scan all originals: Eagle App, entire workbook, blue cards, rank cards, even troop advancement reports! (I realize you may not have had this capability in 1991.)

                      Had this happened in my troop, I would have gathered up the SM and entire troop committee, and "gone camping" outside the SE's office after the 2nd "loss of paperwork".

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I was an Assistant Scoutmaster in a Troop 2004-2006.

                        The SPL got a three month extension beyond age 18 to complete his Eagle, and he did in fact complete it.

                        At troop committee meetings several times I wanted to schedule the young man's Eagle Court of Honor, but each time the parents demurred, saying they need to wait until the Grandparents could come.

                        The troop wound up folding without the young man getting his Eagle COH.

                        The Scoutmaster was the young man's father.

                        Well, he IS an Eagle.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          We had a scout in the troop this year who was working toward a palm for eagle. He had the BOR, all blue cards turned in, etc. 2 weeks before 18th birthday. The CC (who handles advancement; small troop) has mysteriously vanished. Unfortunately, after I and he learned about the change in positions (new CC), the new CC hasn't been at troop meetings to get this all sorted out. SM and I both recall the BOR clearly and know paperwork is turned in. This scout is 18 now. Could the palm application still be sent in to council pre-dated to the BOR date?

                          Thanks

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                          • #14
                            AJR,


                            YES. You can turn in the advancement report with all the BOR members signatures for his palm.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              In the past, my council would lose paperwork all the time. Even when you hand delivered it, things would simply disappear. So I decided to try something. I spent a few cents more on postage and had some paperwork sent certified to the scout office which required a signed receipt. Guess what? When I went to the scout office weeks later to check the status of the paperwork I sent, I was once again told that by the scout office that they either never received the paperwork or it must have gotten lost. But this time I had a receipt signed by the professional who received the mail. Needless to say, the scout office at least for me quit using the excuse that they lost the paperwork. They simply just ignored me instead. Funny how things work sometimes.

                              So as a bit of advice to all my volunteer Scouters out there who have the same problems in their councils concerning lost paperwork. Next time spend an extra dollar to get a signed reciept from the post office when you really want something to get to the scout office. Then have some fun the next time someone tells you that they never received or lost the paperwork. The look on the face of the pro when you give him a copy of a signed reciept is priceless.(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

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