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  • Firearms in Scouting

    We teach firearms use and safety in Scouting. Rifle, Shotgun, Muzzleloader MBs. We allow Venture Crews to shoot handguns. Our kids go to summer camp and the most popular place are the shooting ranges. Philmont has boys shooting high powered 30-06 caliber rifles, some would consider those "Sniper Rifles".

    Should we remove all shooting from Scouting?

  • #2
    Absolutely not. The shooting sports are extrememly safe activities, mostly because of programs like Scouts that teach safe use. The tragedy in Connecticut was NOT BECAUSE OF THE GUN. (emphasis, not yelling)


    • #3
      Absolutely not. Just as we should not be banning power tools and lawn mowers.

      Education and buildin' up a responsible, ethical, knowledgeable community is important for long-term safety.

      What perhaps we should add to da curriculum is some additional emphasis on safe use and storage, and also perhaps on how to address friends or family members who exhibit less than safe habits or worrisome statements. I'd also add a bit on "proper tool for da proper job" - teachin' lads what kinds of firearms are good for what sorts of purposes, and that if yeh need a semi-auto and 12 rounds to hit a target you're an idiot.



      • #4
        What happens when the next kid goes into a school and kills people then it turns out he learned how to shoot at Scout camp?

        I can see the headlines now "Eagle Scout kills 18 students in school shooting was just awarded Rifle Shooting Merit Badge"


        • #5
          I'm going to refrain from using the words in my head as a response other than to say that you're not using rational thought. Just like these mental midgets in government and the media want to make drastic changes to make the actions of one lunatic affect the lives of 360,000,000 others, your idea to destroy 100 years of scouting tradition is just as non-sensical. None of the gun control laws in the world can stop someone bent on doing damage. How many laws did he who will not be named break before even entering the school? Let's see. Murder-Check, Burglary-Check, carrying a concealed weapon without a license-Check, carrying a loaded firearm-check, possession of a handgun while under 21-check. I'm sure there are others.

          If the Bushmaster was actually used in the crime, even the old "assault weapons" ban would not have prevented this. That gun was not considered an "asault weapon" using their terminology. Of course, A knife, baseball bat, hammer, hockey stick, etc can be classed as an assault weapon when used as a weapon during an assault. When used properly, the Bushmaster is just a rifle. Using your logic, the next time some idiot kills someone with an axe, we need to ban axe and hatchet use in scouting. Knives will be next. I'm sure people can be killed with tent stakes. Shovel control? Of course, we need to stop canoing because people can drown.

          Please use logic and facts in your arguments. The Governor of my state was quoted the other day as saying "I THINK we have too many guns" Like the good liberal he is, he doesn't do things based on facts, just emotion.

          The fact is, this guy was a deeply troubled individual who stole guns. News flash-the Sheriff in CT said on CNN the other day that the guns were locked and properly stored. Haven't heard that one repeated too much, have you? That's because it goes against the popular narrative.


          • #6
            Headline, day two: "Killer Eagle Scout was a Prepper"
            Story:.. he was learning wilderness survival skills so he would be prepared when the world ends"


            • #7
              "The boy had also learned to shoot high powered arrows and had been encouraged to use knives since he was in second grade."


              • #8
                Someone said that they lose boys to ROTC where they shoot 223.

                If your talking about retention. Get rid of the stupid 22 rim fire max requirement. Get rid of the single shot on scout ranges.

                hmmm, so the tragedy in Connecticut isn't because of the guns. So mom instead had a nice aluminum ball bat. Well son could have killed her with it, but I doubt he could breach the door at the school.

                I think the mother is very much liable for her sons actions and I hope there is at least 26 law suits against her estate.


                • #9
                  That gun was not considered an "asault weapon" using their terminology

                  Yah, sure. But if we're honest, da only reason for that was the NRA lobbied so long and hard to make da assault weapons ban have so many holes and loopholes that it was pretty much swiss cheese.

                  A scrawny 20 year old is not goin' to be able to easily take out so many staff people resistin' him with a kitchen knife, nor kill so many kids in da 5 minutes or so that he did. We all admit that semi-automatic firearms are a force multiplier, eh? That's what they're designed to be, to allow da weak to defend themselves against stronger folks with knives or whatnot. So it's a bit disingenuous to claim that high-capacity semi-auto firearms are da same a havin' a knife.

                  Now, Eagle732 does raise a good point eh? If we have an Eagle Scout go shoot up a school after completin' shootin' sports training in Scouts, that's goin' to be an epic PR debacle that would severely impact Scouting. And I expect we'd be ashamed and horrified, and would among ourselves and workin' with others do everything we could to figure out how we failed those kids, and change whatever we needed to change to try to make sure it didn't happen again.



                  • #10

                    Headline Day 3: "Senator Diane Feinstein Calls for Banning All BSA Shooting Programs"


                    • #11
                      "Scouting has a long history with paramilitary operations and training," Feinstein said. "Scouting was created by a military commander and many of its conventions--from uniforms to army-style 'patrols' to wide-action pseduo-combat 'games,' clearly encourage impressionable young boys to follow their violent instincts. Couple that with the BSA's long history of intolerance and discriminatory policies, and I think we can all agree that the BSA is a tremendous danger to civilized society."


                      • #12
                        'I think the mother is very much liable for her sons actions and I hope there is at least 26 law suits against her estate."

                        let me see if I follow your logic. The mother of and (albeit troubled) ADULT child, is murdered, then robbed after her death and it is HER fault? So as an extension, If someone broke int my house, murdered me and used my firearms in some horrible manner, it is MY fault?
                        To qoute Carl Braeshear when seeking reinstatement as a Navy Diver after losing a leg, "if I die I will make every attempt to float in a Navy-like manner."

                        Should she have tried to do more to help her son? I don't know what she had done. But, certainly this was not forseeable to her (unless this was suicide by son). I do not believe that suing her estate will accomplish anything beyond causing more heartache.

                        My heart goes out to all who were affected by this tragedy including the family of the shooter.


                        • #13
                          Headline Day 4: "Senators Question if BSA's Discriminatory Policies Led to the Death of Gay Students"

                          Yea, we have a problem.


                          • #14
                            Feinstein has supported JROTC over the years even when that program had anti-gay issues.
                            "This program is an alternative to the sports teams, band or debate team that other students may choose as their extracurricular activity, and allows its members to gain the self-confidence and discipline needed for their future endeavors."
                            Go figure.

                            Back to the original question: Should we remove all shooting from Scouting?

                            Well we pretty much have. There is more talking than shooting. How many rounds will a scout shoot at camp in a week - 50? Bring back the marksmanship level of shooting. Remember when it was called Marksmanship? Shoot for score in prone, sitting, offhand. Show scouts the difference between video game shooting and real shooting - sight picture focus, breathing, trigger squeeze,.. As mentioned the caliber restrictions are idiotic. My son shot 22 at 7, did CMP (223, 30-06) at 14 but outside of scouting. Many of their friends hunt also outside of scouting. Make it more fun, add a little "Top Shot" to it.

                            My $0.02


                            • #15
                              As long as kids have access to firearms or grow up to access them, we should teach skills and safe use and encourage them to be as proficient as possible.

                              Proficiency includes an understanding of safe and ethical use.

                              'nuff said.