Scout spirit and participation for eagles

[pmickle1027]

I have an life scout(has been a life scout since 2001)who has just now 2 months before his 18th birthday decided to try for his eagle. The problem is that he has not attended any meetings or events for the last year. He has also told me that he wont be able to attend any this year as he signed up for an emt class. How do i let him know that he may not qualify due to the lack of participation?

[evmori]

How about just telling him!

[OldGreyEagle]

Does he have his six months of POR done?

[Bob White]

Was he active for the required length of time after earning his Life Rank? That's one requirement.

 

Has he completed his requirement for holding a position of responsibility, That's a different requirement.

 

Does he live his everyday life according to the vales of the Oath and Law, that's what the scout Spirit requirment asks.

 

There is no requirment in the Scout Handbook for Eagle rank to attend a certain number of meetings or activities.

[evmori]

If he hasn't been to a meeting in over a year & can't attend in the future, it sounds like a lack of Scout Spirit. Remember, everyday life includes Scouting. I would also question the loyalty to his Troop. It doesn't seem like there is any.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eamonn]

Hi,pmickle1027

Welcome to the forum.

Would you be willing to change the Troop meeting night to accommodate this Lad? If the meeting night was changed would he attend?

It is unfortunate that the EMT course and Scouting are not working out.

I think you both need to take a long hard look at the requirements.

If the Lad has met all the requirements and you are questioning his participation other than the required participation, you might want to ask yourself what is Scout Spirit?

I know many great Scouters who have had to cut back on what they do to serve Scouts and Scouting because of family, work or education, many of these people are shining examples of Scout Spirit.

I kinda think when you take a long hard look at it you will see that Scout Spirit isn't just participation.

Think about the Lad that is at every meeting and is a real pain in the neck. Is he showing Scout Spirit?

Eamonn.

Of course if he hasn't met the requirements, that's a different ball of wax.

 

(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[madkins007]

I am of a totally different mind tahn some posters. I believe we grow Scouts IN ORDER TO GO OUT and BE Scouts, NOT just attend meetings.

 

Were this me, I would contact his bosses or instructors, etc. (with his permission) and see if he is living the Scout ideals in these places.

 

Taking an EMT class? Any chance Scouing helped spark this interest? Any chance he will get to use his Scout skills and experiences in this? As an EMT (trained but not employed as such), I just bet there is!

 

If he meets the requirments and shows the ideals of Scout spirt in the real world, I'd OK him.

[OldGreyEagle]

Let me try this again, The scout in mention has been at Life for 4 years. During that time was there a 6 month period of time when he was active in his patrol and troop and did he do his positon of responsibility to the Troops satisfaction?

 

Then I would want to know if he has any "3-month" merit badges such as Family Life, Personel Management, or Pesonel Fitness to earn, because unless he can show he started them, they cant be done.

 

But, I will take it all the merit badges are done, maybe a couple elective to do but they could be handled and all is left is the Eagle Project. I would review the steps with him and let him try.

 

Now, as far the definition of Scout Spirit is, its actually rather simple. Some want Scout Spirit to be about what the scout has done for the troop above and beyond the published 6 month requirement, and that can't happen. From the BSA Publication Advancement Committee, Policies and Procedures we find the statement

 

"Scout spirit is defined as living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in a

Scout's everyday life."

 

And some people say BSA doesnt do a good job of defining Scout Spirit, I think BSA does, some just dont like it.

 

Note, there is no mention of Troop meeting attendance, only the 6 month requirement to be active in Troop and Patrol. Now, his abscence in the troop means you have to call parents, teachers, EMT people and assess how he has lived. But if he has lived the Scout Oath and Law, give him a chance.

[evmori]

Maybe we should be asking the Scout why he wants his Eagle? Didn't seem to be a big deal up till now!

 

Living the Scout Oath & Law in your everyday life includes Scouting. If he hasn't been involved in the Troop & doesn't plan to be involved in the Troop how is that being loyal to the Troop? And someone suggested switching the meeting night so this Scout could attend. You have to be kidding. That would be setting a dangerous precedent for the Troop. Anytime someone couldn't attend Troop meetings they could request to change the day of the Troop meetings! Absurd!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

pmickle1027, I have given the citation from the appropriate BSA publication. If you need clatification send me a PM. I hope you found the information you were looking for. Some people have shown that no matter the facts, they can't admit reality and thats all I have to say on the matter.

[mdutch]

Ed,

Living the Scout Oath and Law in your everyday life, does include scouting. That means when he is at scouting he should follow the oath and law.

As to the question of loyalty, would you deny a scout eagle because he moved (that would be showing disloyalty to his community)? What about a scout who switches troops because they don't believe they are being treated fairly in their current one? If you wouldn't do it for those, I don't see how you can do it for deciding to take an EMT class.

 

I agree with OGE on this one, as long as he had a 6 month period of activity since becoming eagle, and he meets all the other requirments he should be fine.

[FScouter]

"Scout spirit is defined as living the Scout Oath (Promise) and Scout Law in a Scout's everyday life."

 

Bears repeating. Has he or has he not?

[madkins007]

Hear, hear FScouter!

 

 

 

One of my minor pet peeves is that sometimes, we SMs focus on Scout Spirit as it applies to Scouting time a bit too much. Sometimes we ask about how they've applied it in everyday life- looking for some example of a good turn or how they have been kind, but so often we try to figure out a way to quantify this- attended so many meetings, was on so many campouts...

 

My old troop used to do this in an effort to 'manage' the large number of Scouts. Instead of actually knowing much about them, they created checklists and databases for everything. We were supposed to do the SM conference based on a script and printout of the Scout's history. BORs were run about the same factory line way.

 

(If anyone is ever interested, THAT is MY definition of an 'Eagle factory'- a set of established procedures to streamline the advancement process with minimal effort from the Scout.')

[evmori]

meamemg,

A Scout moving has nothing to do with loyalty to the Troop. Neither does your other question.

 

Read the original post. This Life Scout just decided to try for his Eagle. Why? Where has he been? Sure signing up for an EMT class is a good thing, but what is more important - earning his Eagle or becoming an EMT?

 

Sure he is to live the Oath & Law in his everyday life. And Scouting is part of his everyday life. But in this Scout's case, he hasn't been involved with his Troop & has no plans to be involved. He just wants his Eagle! Why?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[madkins007]

Ed asked "but what is more important - earning his Eagle or becoming an EMT?"

 

I dunno Ed- I am often in your corner, but this question is a bit tough for me to take at face value. EMT that saves lives, can assist in life and death issues, serves a community even when not on duty and is probably a stepping stone to another career calling like fire fighter... or a rank in a youth organization that is in and of itself pretty dang cool.