Advancement - what is "active"?

[ps56k 10]

I was going back over a couple of threads from this year, and just wanted to make sure I have the consensus....

 

Active - for rank advancement - "Be active in Troop or Patrol for 6 months"....

What does that mean ?

Just registered as a Scout, or

Registered, and some Troop-level set of requirements such as attendance to meetings, campouts, etc...

 

BOR - I seem to recall that parents are enlisted to help serve on the

BOR,

yet the doc indicates the BOR should consist of Committee Members

(except for the SM & ASMs)

 

 

 

[Bob White 20]

What does the Boy Scout Handbook say the requirement refers to?

 

What does the Scoutmaster Handbook say about board of reviews.

 

Forget about what you thought you heard, dont' worry about what others say. follow the Scouting program. You will find your answers in the BSA resources and through training opportunities offered by your District and Council.

 

Best Wishes,

BW

[EagleInKY 14]

ps56k,

 

Don't worry about Bob. He's grumpy sometimes.

 

There have been lots of discussion about what is "active". I believe it's like that Supreme Court decision many years ago. I'm not exactly sure what it is, but I know it when I see it. As a SM, you should be able to figure out if a boy is active or not. If he's missed that past 3 months of meetings and activities due to football, then he's not active. But welcome him back after the season so he can get his participation requirement.

 

BORs are comprised of Committee Members. The SM and the ASMs are not members of the Troop Committee. Since most troop committees are made up of parents, then the BORs are usually comprised of parents. Remember, the parent of the child cannot serve on the BOR. BORs for Eagle are handled by the District.

[Scoutmaster Ron 12]

Ask the scout what is active..The troop I'm serving requires 50% meetings and 50% outings personally I disagree with this. A scout recently transfered out due to this he was 80% meetings and 40% outings and was denied a S.M. conference. We were told by our council/DE that troops can define "what is active"

[Eamonn 61]

We have in the past gone over this at great length.

Bob White is spot on when he says that the information you need is in the resources that he listed.

We treat each Scout as an individual. There could be a lot of good reasons as to why a Scout might miss regular troop meetings or outings. Blanket rules only serve as a disservice to the people that we are here to serve.

If you want to do a search through Search Forums, you will see all the different points of view. But at the end of the day you need to look in the BSA material.

Eamonn.

[molscouter 10]

That brings up an interesting question. Do the 6 months have to be consecutive? A strict readng of the requirement would say no, but it could be implied that they should be.(This message has been edited by molscouter)

[ps56k 10]

Just for a point - I don't believe that any of the BSA materials, handbooks, or whatever specifically define what is to be considered as "active" - hence it would be quoted or directly referenced... Nor do the pubs actually give the Troop, Crew, District, or Council the "right" to define what constitutes "active"... again, else that section would be directly referenced.

 

 

[Bob White 20]

"Just for a point - I don't believe that any of the BSA materials, handbooks, or whatever specifically define what is to be considered as "active""

 

That would be incorrect.

[Adrianvs 10]

The Boy Scout Handbook refers the reader to page 169 regarding the requirement to "Be active in your troop and patrol."

 

The first paragraph reads:

 

"To gain full advantage of all that Scouting has to offer, you need to be present when things are happening. Take part in meetings, in planning activities, and in the fun of adventures. If you're there, you can do your part to make your patrol and troop a success."

 

The subsequent merely indicate the amount of active time required for each rank.

 

The first sentence alone seems to indicate that the scout must be present in all cases that "things are happening." Since the principle is related to troop and patrol, we can narrow that to all cases in which things are happening in the troop or patrol. The first sentence alone seems to indicate that if the scout is not present when all things are happening, then he has not fulfilled the requirement.

 

The second sentence provides more a more specific description and possibly another interpretation of "be[ing] active in [one's] troop or patrol." The sentence list three things which must be taken part in:

 

Meetings

Planning [of] Activities

Fun of Adventures

 

The question is whether the scout must take part in ALL meetings, planning of activities, and fun of adventures, or only SOME. A minimalist interpretation would take the plural form of Meetings, (Planning of) Activities, and (Fun of) Adventures, and state that as long as the scout took part in at least two meetings the planning of at least two activities and the fun of at least two adventures, he would fulfill the requirement.

 

A maximalist interpretation (consistent with the previous interpretation of the first sentence) would take the ambigious language to indicate that the scout must take part in ALL meetings, planning of activities, and fun of adventures, since the scout must "be present when things are happening."

 

 

Perhaps the other "BSA resources and through training opportunities offered by your District and Council" shed more light on this issue. In any case, I strongly suspect that the final call is a prudential one and that the scoutmaster must determine if whatever the BSA has listed as the required situation is present in any particular case.

 

I suspect that this is the kind of help that ps56k is looking for, not a reference to more vagueries to be found in official BSA literature and official BSA lectures.

[EagleInKY 14]

Adrianvs - Good summary of the BS Handbook. I took a quick glance through the SM Handbook, and could not find anything more specific there. Additinally, I taught SM/ASM Specific training back in the summer, and I do not remember anything specific in that sylabus either.

 

I'll disagree with Bob on this one, I have never seen a clear definition of what is "active". Bob, instead of pointing people at loads of documenation, why don't you give us the book, chapter and verse of this so-called definition. Or, do you not have it with you (again).

 

I'll stand by my first post. Active is not about percentages. A Scoutmaster should be able to easily distinguish between active and not active. Go with your gut.

[evmori 11]

The BSA doesn't actually define "active". It is left open to interpretation.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White 20]

Then I would as ps56k, "Based on the description of 'active' in the Boy Scout Handbook, and what you have learned in the basic training courses for scouting of the ideals and methods of scouting, what do you see as next step in your role in the troop regarding this requirement?"

 

Hers is just a suggestion to ps56k and others who turn to outlets like the internet for scouting solutions. Consider asking the person who answers your post if they follow the program or not and how it has worked for them. You have a right to know if they are leading you on a path to success or if they just want company as they make their own way.

 

Just a suggestion.

 

BW

 

 

[evmori 11]

What's you answer, Bob?

[Bob White 20]

Here is my reply Ed.

 

The question was asked by ps56k, my discussion is with him.

 

Ed, you have chosen how you interpret the methods of scouting and "your" troop has lost over 66% of its members in the last two years. What was 18 Scouts, plus two years of recruiting new Webelos, is now a troop of 7. Unfortunately I am sure that another group of Webelos are in your sights, and they too will soon become more sad statistics for you.

 

If others want to follow "your" scouting they are welcome to. I choose to follow the Scouting program and have not lost that many scouts before they aged out in nearly 27 years. I couldn't care less what you want from me.

 

Anyone else who thinks the methods are there for you to "experiment" and feel that in your short experience you know better than the 94 years of experience of the BSA...the line forms behind Ed. You hurt only the Scouts you promised to serve.

 

OGE was right!

 

BW

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Adrianvs 10]

Bob,

 

I am confused. Ps56k wants some help in determining if a specific case meets the BSA standards of "active." You refer to some BSA literature and training, but have not yet given us any specific quotes or even principles that would help us to make this judgement. I have managed to find only one more detailed description in the Boy Scout Handbook and analyzed it, but we are awaiting anything more..

 

Anyone can claim "I follow the program" or "I have X% retention year by year" or "I am attuned to the BSA program" or whatever, but if they explicitly refer to the answer in BSA publications, they should quote them if someone asks them to.

 

Ps56k as well as myself would like to know what else the BSA has officially stated regarding the word "active." Either you have something more than the word itself and the passage that I have quoted from the Handbook or you do not. If you do, please tell us. If not, please say so.

 

Ed may not be following the Scouting program and he may not have good retention rates, but his claim that the word "active" by itself with no other specific guidelines is necessarily open to interpretation is not a controversial one.

 

You do right to invoke the "94 years of experience of the BSA," but what do those 94 years say??? I have given two possible interpretations of "active" in the Boy Scout Handbook. Are either of them correct? If not, then what would the correct interpretation be?