Eagle Preparation: are we really doing the Scouts a disservice?

[Bob White 20]

BW

Your question implies that you are ready to provide the administrative funding and support needs to run the Council that provides program to 20% of the available youth.

 

No it doesn't!!! It implies that you made a very broad statemment and I have no idea what you specifically include in that category. It is the same as saying you think property tax money for the schools should only be spend on education. Well schools provide for an education, Scout Councils provide for a program. So what exactly are you saying???

 

Without a specific explanaition of what you consider a "program cost" your statement has no real meaning.

 

 

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

 

 

This discussion has ended unless Eamonn has other thoughts which I would be more than happy to hear.

 

 

[Bob White 20]

Eamonn, you too have probably been involved or at least hovered close to budgeting. Could you earmark any amount of money for "program" and have everyone else understand exactly what items that covered? Or would you have to be more specific and budget for specific elements? Do all councils have the same line items under "program"?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Twocubdad 665]

I'm not sure I'm following the thrust of the conversation here -- and this is WAAY off the original topic, but a couple thought relating to the last few posts (and I'm not even sure whose argument this supports, if either):

 

1) Comparing BSA to most athletic leagues is a non-starter. Someone could write a book on the program differences, but just in terms of funding it should be noted that most athletic leagues rely on massive public funding of facilities. Whether it's the local Saturday morning soccer league or the high school football team, I shudder to think what the total cost is to build and maintain the sports facilities for these teams. If you are going to compare the budgets of scout camps to baseball leagues, be sure to include the cost of the $5 million taxpayer-paid park they are playing in.

 

2) One programming area I would like to see our council commit more money to would be make our camp facilities available on a year-round basis. Sure, you can primitive camp at a council camp any time of year, but all you are utilizing is the vacant land and firewood. Most Scout camps have huge investments in facilities (dining halls, pools and other aquatics facilities, climbing walls, shooting ranges) which are used only a few weeks in the summer. Many, if not most local units don't have the trained leaders to use these facilities on a unit basis. Why not have a skeleton staff to open these area with the help of trained volunteers? Wouldn't it be great for a pack to be able to call up and say we have 30 boys and 25 adults who want to use the pool Saturday morning, the BB and archery ranges in the afternoon and will be there for dinner Saturday and breakfast Sunday?

 

It's like McDonald's selling breakfast. The cost of the fixed assets were so much greater than the marginal operating cost, it didn't make sense for the restaurants to sit idle for a third of the day. Viola! Egg McMuffins!

 

By the way, this is an idea I've discussed with our council camping chairman who thinks it has merit and has agreed to discuss it further.

[Eamonn 61]

I kinda think that we are having a slight communication problem.

We all (Well me anyway!!) seem to have a different idea what program is.

Please feel free to correct me if I am way of course.

I see the program as the stuff that goes on in the troop.The weekly meetings, the camp-outs, the little fellow working his way through the requirements in the Scout Handbook (change what you need to for Cub Scouts or Venturers.) The high point is normally some sort of summer activity. In many cases the Troop going to camp.

This is the really important program.

 

The delivery of this program lies in the hands of the leaders and the committee members. We also should not forget the chartered partners. I'm trying hard not to use the word program!! We at the unit level are an extension of that organization.

At the District level program can take on a new or different meaning. For the most part we have very little interaction with the youth.

When I look at the District Chairman Highlights book and my job description, if I'm remembering correctly (No I don't have one in front of me!!)It makes no mention of doing anything with our youth members. Sure we have committees that have a voice on other committees. Our camping committee doesn't go camping with the Scouts, but they have a voice as to how much camp will cost and what improvements need to be done. We do have an activities committee to organize district events.In our District three Camporees and a mall show. Attendance at these is up to the unit. If they like what we are offering they come if they don't like it they are free to do their own thing.

The Commissioner Staff are viewed by the District as being program guys. They are the support guys for the units. I served as a commissioner for a good many years and never received a phone call from a youth member. So while this group is viewed as being a program group. In the book of Eamonn, they really aren't.

When we go up to the Council level program can take on an entire new meaning. Please don't think that I'm putting our pros down. But some Board members see DE's as the guys who ensure the delivery of the program.Some Board members believe that if we had more DE's in the field that the program would improve. Sad to say these guys and girls like to eat and have other needs which makes them a very expensive tool. Camps and camp management can be viewed as program items. Sad to say we have a beautiful camp which we can't get into from late October till spring thaw. The new camp center cost over $300,000. It houses the first aid station, the admin center a training center.

We have another camp that really needs city water brought in, but just to get that in is $250,000. Which we don't have at this time. Once we get it in and build shower houses the camp will get used a lot more and troops and packs will use it to improve their programs.

As you go up through the Region and maybe the National levels program takes on an other twist.

Money is a very big and very important part of Scouting. I look at the tents that are used for summer camp. They cost something like $200 -$300 each. I again don't have the book. The tents are used for summer camp in our council that is seven weeks. The life span is about ten years. If that tent is filled for its life time it will meet the needs of 140 Scouts. That is about $2.00 just to house the Scout in the tent. This could come under program.

While some Councils have been fortunate enough to raise the money to meet budget these past few years. Others have had a very rough ride. Our good pal Dave Steele didn't leave the council he was at because of his health. He left because money was tight. Dave wasn't replaced and I feel sure that the program in the council he was at is the worse for him not being there.

I am all for goals. When I became District Chair. Our District was known as the smallest district. I found myself saying it "Hi I'm from such and such a district we are the smallest district." My goal was to stop saying it. We are no longer the smallest district. We put membership on the front burner and really worked on and with the units to go for it.

As I posted I am not happy that we are not reaching out and grabbing more of the youth that are not in our organization. I believe that my part in getting more youth and upping our percentage is not going to cost the district anything. We need to start more units in areas that are under-served. It really doesn't matter why the area is under-served!! We just need to get in there and get the job done.

We need to do a far better job of marketing. We have all sorts of Scouting events going on all the time. We need to get the units to do a better job of sending reports into the local papers. We need to ensure that all of our leaders are trained. At round tables we need to relight the enthusiasm that some of our old guys seem to have lost. Plant ideas that they can bring back the PLC or leaders meetings. This fall we will be going back into the schools to recruit, we need to send the brightest and the best communicator's,people that will sell the adventure and Fun to the children. We will recruit and train commissioners that will help and support the units.

We had our kick off meeting tonight and I found myself saying that our District would not allow any child to be left behind.

Things that we started last year are paying off. We now will not send a charter into the Service Center until every Scout who has been crossed off, has been contacted and asked if he is sure that he wants to be crossed off. I know of at least 18 Lads that came back, maybe not to the same unit but they are back.

We are trying some new ideas this year. We are holding our first ever Tiger Cub parent orientation meeting. We have in the past been losing a lot of these little fellows. Our DE is in Rotary with the guy from the local cable company, he has agreed to air Scouting ads for no cost.

All this stuff is OK. However the big thing will be what happens at the weekly meeting. If there is not a balanced program, where the Lad feels that he is part of an ongoing fun and adventurous organization. It will all be for nothing. The Lad will leave and will tell his mates at school that Scouting sucks. If we had a hard time getting him the first time, it is a heck of a lot harder the second time.

Eamonn

 

 

(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

Eamonn,

 

I hope you understand that this is a general discussion based on your first entry about the 20% problem that you encountered.

 

The existing Basic Boy Scout Program as we know it (I think):

 

Program= Troop planned and Leader/Committee supported campouts and or events.

 

Program= District events= Fall Camporee, Spring Camporee, Merit Badge Midway.

 

Program= Council events= Summer Camp, Scout Fun Fair.

 

Possible cause of Boy leaving Scouting= Poor program at one or all levels.

 

Known Problem: Few exit interviews are ever had and fewer repairs are ever made to those problems.

 

Possible repair= Enriched Program at all levels.

 

Reason= It is assumed that program and recidivism are related.

 

Bulletin: Council has determined that this will be the year of PROGRAM ENRICHMENT! Banner unfurls, horn blares the Scouts (ers) March, all celebrate together- Hurrah!

 

Individual Repairs:

 

1. Council makes sure that quality program is possible for all units by ensuring the Council camp is open for troop usage all the year round. Council has staff and well maintained equipment for programs.

 

a. It was opinioned that Scouting should not compare itself to having a 5 million dollar ball park. Answer= correct-all agree.

Hurrah!

 

We have something much better. (and what it that Mr. Smarty pants?)

 

Answer= Rifle ranges, climbing towers, boating, all kinds, hiking trails, bike trails, nature centers, on and on. Could this cost 5 million- isn't it already available in your local Scout camps that are open one/two months a year?

 

b. When I was a kid, a vacant lot for a ball game was the least expensive item on the menu. I have not been to a Scout Camp where there wasn't a vacant lot. So, I am not sure what the problem is if the Scouts would like to have a ball game. Maybe all of the vacant lots are gone and that is the issue or maybe fun can only happen in a 5 million dollar ballpark.

 

c. I don't want to expand this idea much further but available resources (i.e., things you do not have to buy) plus the use of creative play (i.e., games expanded, rules changed, equipment used or not used, etc.) allows for greater freedom and novel approaches to program.

 

WARNING: OH yea, this has to be taught because people have been raised on Nintendo. (i.e., electronic games where the interaction is limited, so be careful.)

 

2. District repair for program- The Training team properly trains ADULTS about program. (i.e., all adults). Now, isn't that their present function? Yes, but I am talking about an ENRICHED program that EVERYONE has decided on and learns about.

 

b. The properly trained Adults can then train their Scouts on the unit level. NOTE: That is one job that they have been given, at least by the manuals I have.

 

c. District Activities- Camporees- The Training Chair uses the Skills of Leadership to properly put together these events.

Meaning= They discontinue using unit leaders and/or Scouts to staff the events. They recruit others to run the events.

 

Question: Where do these "others" come from if they are not the unit leaders and they are not the Scouts? I will let you figure that one out, since part of this is a guided discovery.

 

HINT: Oh yea, Since you are given the mission to reach beyond the same old tired worn out people, you will also find ENRICHED program there also. So, get to work.

 

The Commissioner Service- What do they do? (small ant says, I don't know. This is fine because ants don't know much about Scouting, we think!)

 

If they (i.e., Commissioners)were given the charge to ensure that quality program was available to all units= properly trained leaders and if they would attempt some quality assurance measures= looking at the unit programs to see what is happening, then it is possible that advice could be shared, on the spot training could happen, so increased awareness of possible programs would be known about.

 

WARNING: Now, this does not mean the Unit Commissioner is training the Scouts. What it means is that the UC is helping the Scout Leaders or ADULTS to understand how they can SUPPORT the Scouts in their planning their programs so that the programs are ENRICHED.

 

Unit level enrichment- Scouts need to be trained properly about program and they must have the known resources to develop some of those programs. NOTE: The training for this comes from a properly trained adult leader.

 

Committee- their job, according to the Committee Guide- is to SUPPORT the program- if the idea of ENRICHMENT is shared with this group, then it might rub off on the program outcomes of the PLC.

 

OK- The end of the year has arrived and we are at the Council Banquet. Program ENRICHMENT has worked for some and not for others. We look to see if the numbers have increased because this experiment has cost us some effort and some bucks. There is some grousing about change and things are not the way they used to be. But then, in comes the horn and the banner and it is determined that success has occurred because there has been a 5% increase over last year, awards are given for increased numbers and then it is said by the Council Leader that we will try it again for four more years, horn blaring and all march in circle. Hurrah!

 

Its just a thought,

 

FB

 

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

"If there is not a balanced program, where the Lad feels that he is part of an ongoing fun and adventurous organization. It will all be for nothing. The Lad will leave and will tell his mates at school that Scouting sucks. If we had a hard time getting him the first time, it is a heck of a lot harder the second time."

 

The word "sucks" carries allot of advertising weight. If young people believe that is the quality of the program, then any number of good Membership drives will fail for those youth that hear about it the first time. You don't have to worry about the second time around.

 

FB

 

[Bob White 20]

Nothing will affect a scouts opinion of scouting more than the quality of his last meeting. Nothing has a more positive affect on the quality of unit program more than trained leaders.

 

 

[Eamonn 61]

Fuzzy

In your long posting that followed my long posting you bring up and cover a lot of ideas that are worth exploring.

You are right when you say in your other shorter posting about the quality of the program.

Scouting to a young Scout is what happens in his troop.

Sad as it may seem the guys who serve on the district can not do very much about what is happening at the weekly troop meeting. Sure we can provide training and a happy talented Commissioner. But we didn't select the leadership we are just there to support them. It is their choice as what they do with our support.

We at the District level are faced with goals for membership that being so, we will keep working on recruiting youth into our programs.

We are taking steps to get Lads that have left to think again and give Scouting another chance. 18 Scouts may only be a baby step, but it is heading in the right direction.

Eamonn.

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

Eamonn,

 

Membership does not operate in a vacuum. Membership is strongly dependent on the outcomes of the other elements of the Unit, District, and Council Committees. Membership is the "weakest" part of any committee but has the potential of being the strongest.

 

The REASON: Membership uses the existing activities and the existing numbers to base their advertisements. In other words, Membership holds a mirror up so those in the program can look at themselves. If what they see is based on an accurate assessment, then they (the Committees) may respond.

 

Caution: Ads should be viewed before general distribution.

 

An advertisement need only be truthful to change behavior. If the word "sucks" comes to mind, then it is at that point where CONCERN should be shown.

 

But let's say that the program and the numbers really "sucks" yet all of the committees point out that it is not their fault because it is a "Boy Run" operation. Let's say that they want the ad to "gloss over" several details to make it look like the kind of fun and adventurous program that they have in their own minds but cannot be proved in any visible way. It is at that point where an individual's own adherence to the Scout Law and Oath becomes evident.

 

Case in point: A few years ago, I was a UC for a particular Pack and had been for several months. I told the CM that I would attend two meetings and take pictures. He was happy to have the attention and I am sure he looked on my "taking pictures" as an act of "Advertisement" for what Scouting is really all about.

 

We looked at the results together. It didn't show what he expected. It showed Scouts sitting around looking bored. Why? Because he was the show and he was the only one enjoying himself.

 

(*stage direction) CM, What to do, What to do, hand wringing and anxiety.

 

UC, "Not to worry, here is the Program Helps, assign parts and I will take pictures again."

 

Next meeting, Scouts were engaged, having fun.

 

Results?

 

Bigger Pack, more Leaders needed. People wanted to help because it was actually FUN.

 

Quality program is an issue that people understand and can have faith in as having substance. It is achievable. It has visible results. People respond positively to it. It becomes something that people can point to with pride. It gives people a reason to enter an organization and to remain.

 

Those in the Membership Committee must find the strength to share with the rest of the Committees what is evident, even if it sucks.

 

FB

 

[Eamonn 61]

Sorry Fuzzy Old Chap now I have to diagree with you.

Just as in any other ad when we try to sell the program we sell it at it's best.

Toyota doesn't show a broken down car and the cost of imported parts in their ads. We sell the Scouting as it should be.

At Training we do our best to train leaders how to do things the right way. But once they get back to the troop setting what they chose to do is up to them.

Of course recruiting is a lot easier when you can hold up the local troops that are doing things well.

Eamonn

[Bob White 20]

If we are defining 'program' as the actual 'doing' of activities by scouts and scout units, then I cannot think of any effect that the District or Council committees have on the week to week program of a unit, outside of training leaders.

 

Program is a function of units. Administration is a function of council/district. There are only a few exceptions such as summer camps and day camps. If a unit is relying on council/district activities to keep the promise of scouting then they will indeed disappoint a boy who came to scouting expecting fun meetings and adventure.

 

The primary function of council/district is to insure the future of scouting in a community by securing the resources needed for units to exist. Council/districts are responsible for securing the money, manpower and membership needed to keep a flow of youth and adults into the program, and the money to pay for record keeping, property maintenance and operation, leader development, insurance protection, legal assistance, and resource sales.

 

But once those youth and adults are in the movement it is the unit's responsibility to deliver the program. Quality unit meetings have zero reliance on council/district action or support. The council/district support of unit scouting is intentionally transparent to the scout. You will find that the vast majority of the council budget goes to direct services to youth but due to the nature of those direct services they do not go to program but to program support.

 

Program is a function of the unit. The absolute very best advertising for scouting is the quality of your next unit meeting. Positive word of mouth will only happen when units regularly keep the promise of scouting, and that is done independent from council/district.

 

BW

 

[scoutldr 732]

Bob said, "Quality unit meetings have zero reliance on council/district action or support."

 

Is it not the job of the District Commissioner Staff to monitor unit program delivery, identify "problems" and help the unit to initiate corrective action?

[Eamonn 61]

If only it was that easy.

Scout troop is not running right. Commissioner offers advise Scoutmaster opts to take no notice. Scout in the troop becomes ASM. Goes to training thinks that these guys might be on to something. He tells SM, who informs him that "We don't do it that way!!" Scoutmaster retires. Training is now a long forgotten memory. Commish offers advise to the ASM who is now SM.He opts to take no notice. Scout in the troop becomes ASM ........

Unit Commissioners can offer advise and can report that things are not going well to the District Commissioner. But we didn't select the Leadership the Chartering Organization did.

Eamonn.

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

Eamonn,

 

We disagree 100%. Nothing new here. Big Deal, it is just words or electrons on a page.

 

One point about advertising: There is the official advertising that will sway 10% even if it is pure lies. Then there is the 'word of mouth' advertising that sways people much more effectively and lasts much longer.

 

Word of mouth advertising will most likely have untruth in it. The difference is that it is personal, person to person, one friend sharing with another friend their truth, as they see it and have experienced it. That kind of advertisement cannot be bought. It is that kind of advertisement that I am talking about when I am saying quality program is important and it exactly the kind of advertisement that the Membership Committees need.

 

Commissioner effectiveness does not have to rest on low quality program inertia. I strongly believe that such things can be remedied.

 

Yet, another chapter to be disagreed with, coming soon.

 

FB