bullying issues

[wildhog]

Hi all. This is my first post so please bear with me. I am looking for some feedback on fallout I'm dealing with from my Troop's week at summer camp.

 

Here's the situation. We have a Scout, Scott, who told his mother that he is the victim of bullying. When Scott's family came up for family night on Friday night he was in tears saying that he wanted them to take him home. On Thursday I sat down with most of the Scouts individually, inculding Scott, just to see how the week was going; he said everything was fine and there were no problems. His mom makes it sound like it's him against the whole Troop but when I asked she mentioned the problem is with one individual. She is absolutly convinced that this other Scout,Harry who is two years older, is going to physically harm Scott.

 

We have had other issues with Scott in the past. At the beginning of the year I sat down with Scott's mom because he complained that he was being picked on. When I talked to the other Scouts they said that he was picking on them and they were reacting to that. When confronted, Scott said he was reacting to the other Scouts. So we ended up in a "blame spiral" that resolved nothing. Since that got us nowhere I told the Scouts it was time for a clean slate. We're going to forget about all the stuff that happened before and Scott and the other Scouts were going to start over from scratch.

 

Scott never came to me or any of the other adults at camp to say he was being bullied. Everything I heard was second or third hand information. The only incident I heard of was that Scott's walking stick had been thrown into the woods and he accused Harry of doing it. Harry denied it when I talked to him and when another adult talked to him.

 

All that being said, and after talking with the other adults at camp, nobody picked on other Scouts more than Scott did. He intentionally soiled other Scout's uniforms, he threw a cup of water at another Scout ("for the fun of it" in his own words), he routinely ignored the youth leaders and his camp duties. I could go on but I think you get the idea. I'm disappointed that his mother did not bring up the issue with Harry while everyone was still at camp and so far I have only dealt with his mother.

 

My next step is to get Scott and his parents and Harry and his parents together with some other Troop leaders and find out what's going on.

 

I appologize for the length of this post but any ideas, feedback, etc. I can get from you guys would be greatly appreciated. I think it always helps to have other points of view.

 

Thanks

WildHog

 

"GO SpeedGoats!"

 

 

 

 

[rat1571]

i hear what you are saying about the bullying. in out troop we have a few kids who do all of it. although there not to good about hiding it. i remember when i was a scout there was a lot of it happening in the troop and i was a victim several times. when i approached the scoutmaster he confronted them and nothing got resolved right away because everyone denied everything. i guess what i am trying to say is, it is a little tough but it will get resolved in time. it always does.

i have confronted those scouts in my troop and since im very close to their age in comparison to the rest of the leaders, it made it much easier. I am 21 and the average age of the troop is 13. i am still new to this asst scoutmaster thing but me talking to the scouts just seemed to work.

i hope this issue gets resolved and the scouts can have as much fun as possible.

 

yours in scouting

Rob

http://www.geocities.com/hrctroop48

[Beavah]

Yah, wildhog. Very difficult to deal with these things after the fact, eh?

 

Bullies tend to be very accomplished at hidin' their activities from adults. So I wouldn't automatically discount Scott's tale. At the same time, the (far) more common behavior pattern is the one you describe, where a boy tweaks the noses of other boys, gets the natural reaction, then runs to mom. Call it "little brother behavior."

 

I'd isolate kids and gather information first. Meet with your PL's, SPL, ASPL individually or in small groups and find out what they saw. The kids see what goes on when adults aren't watchin'. I'd also talk to the other younger guys in Scott's patrol and in the troop. They see what goes on when even the older boys aren't watchin'. Trust the kids. It might take a bit of prompting for you to get it out of them (big taboo against "ratting"), but they know the score on bullying better than any adult.

 

Once you know the score, I'd meet with Harry & Scott (and their parents) separately. The parents should be observers, not participants. Chances are you'll catch one or both in falsehoods or half-truths. Then respond appropropriately based on the evidence. Be very firm, though... both boys should hear thunder even if they're not struck by lightning, eh? You want both the perception and reality that you're taking this very seriously, and that if it continues in the troop they will not continue in the troop. Six months "probation" can be a good tactic, as long as you're willing to follow-through with a suspension or expulsion for a probation violation.

 

Lastly, document, document, document. Write up the complaint. Write up what each boy and adult told you. Write up the notes from the interviews. Write up the results. File it all, and follow-up with a written letter to each boy/family, with a more generic letter to the whole parent body.

 

Far better for you to go overboard than underboard in makin' a "big deal" investigation & response. Real bullies deserve a full response, and false accusers are often scared straight by the full formal investigation, interviews, and thunder.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eamonn]

How old are these Lad's?

Eamonn.

[wildhog]

Scott is 12 and going into 7th grade. Harry is 14 and going into 9th grade. They both attended the same school until now, Harry is going to high school in the fall.

[evmori]

So from what I read Scott who claims he is being bullied, is the initiator and maybe Henry is retaliating? If that is correct, it sounds like Scott is a pro at doing this. Nothing worse than a blame shifter at this age.

 

Ya gotta nip this now! This could create real problems. I would outright ask Scott in front of his parents if he did what you were told he did. He'll probably say no & then you can go into a talk about working together as a team & trustworthy & that stuff. Then I would tell everyone Scott he has used up all his "Cry Wolf" cards & the game is over. I'd bet he wanted to go home because he was afraid of getting caught!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eamonn]

The Guide to Safe Scouting offers th following:

 

All members of the Boy Scouts of America are expected to conduct themselves in accordance with the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law. Physical violence, hazing, bullying, theft, verbal insults, and drugs and alcohol have no place in the Scouting program and may result in the revocation of a Scout's membership in the unit.

 

If confronted by threats of violence or other forms of bullying from other youth members, Scouts should seek help from their unit leaders or parents.

 

Unit Responsibilities

Adult leaders of Scouting units are responsible for monitoring the behavior of youth members and interceding when necessary. Parents of youth members who misbehave should be informed and asked for assistance in dealing with it.

 

The BSA does not permit the use of corporal punishment by unit leaders when disciplining youth members.

 

The unit committee should review repetitive or serious incidents of misbehavior in consultation with the parents of the child to determine a course of corrective action including possible revocation of the youth's membership in the unit.

 

If problem behavior persists, units may revoke a Scout's membership in that unit. When a unit revokes a Scout's membership, it should promptly notify the council of the action.

 

The unit should inform the Scout executive about all incidents that result in a physical injury or involve allegations of sexual misconduct by a youth member with another youth member.

 

It seems to me that you are a little unsure if Scott is in fact telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

Some 12 year old Lad especially little Lad's with over protective Moms have been known to twist the truth and use things in order to manipulate their parents and other adults.

Scott sounds to me like he is a little toad.

But Toad or not he doesn't deserve to be bullied.

At 14 Harry is developing a real sense of justice. If he is indeed innocent blaming him for something that he isn't guilty of will cause a lot of harm.

I think my first step would be to get the two of them an other adult who knows how to nod and shake his /her head and not say anything.

I'd then proceed to give both of them my best Scout Oath and Scout Law lecture, I'd make sure I had a very pained look on my face, telling them both how saddened I am this is happening in this Troop and on my watch.

I'd let them both know that telling lies and bullying is not going to be tolerated and if I as much as suspect or smell any ill feelings between the pair of them, that I will be calling their parents to come and pick them up and calling the Troop Committee Chair to take it from there.

I'd explain that I just don't have time for this sort of foolishness.

Then I'd let them know that my nodding buddy and myself will be watching them like hawks.

I'd ask them both if they understood what I'd just said?

Then I'd have my buddy lead them both in reciting the Scout Oath and Law.

Of course now that I've made a promise I would go out of my way to keep an eye on the pair of them.

But I would do everything I could to catch them doing things right and praise them for it.

I'd keep a special eye out for the occasion when Scott is being a little toad and Harry doesn't thump him and praise Harry for not thumping him.

If this doesn't work?

I would have no alternative but to follow the G2SS.

Eamonn.

[CA_Scouter]

So far, I see only Scott making accusations, and see no evidence of Harry doing anything wrong.

 

I have a Scout who tells tall tales ( ok, he lies ) and occasionally gets into minor scrapes with the others. IN additional to the excellent suggestioned noted above, we assign an ASM to monitor the scout's activities when we suspect him of wrongdoing. Amazingly, when he knows he's being watched, we've had no problems!

 

On the other hand, I had a scout quit the troop over this previous scout, because I didn't listen closely enough to his complaint and follow through sufficiently. ( shame on me! )

 

I would ask Scott very specific questions about the bullying, so as to be sure its not a general 'I'm being picked on' thing. If he can't recall sufficient details, then maybe you have a clue of what is really going on...

 

Also, I would monitor Scott very closely, and don't give him a chance to be without adult supervision/observation for a while if at all possible.

 

 

 

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

I meant to post this yesterday when I first read the thread and got sidetracked with WORK of all things. It is much like what CA_Scouter said. A couple of years ago, Barry, (Eagledad) and I were have a discussion about a problem scout in the troop I was serving at the time. Barry told me how they had handled a particular problem boy who had a destructive bent if I recall correctly. An adult was assigned to the boy. The boy was not made aware that an adult was assigned. Since this adult stayed within about 10 feet of the boy and moved every time the boy moved, the kid got the idea very quickly. He knew that if he didn't toe the line, he would have a permanent shadow. He changed his behavior. I'm not sure about Harry, but Scott needs a shadow.....even if it is a distant one to keep an eye on the "situation" more than him.

 

I am the ASM responsible for the 20 new scouts who crossed over to our troop. They make up 2 NSP's. I have 2 special needs boys. I try to let the troop guides do their job and give the patrols as much independent time as possible. I do keep an eye out to make sure these boys are not being teased or causing problems of their own.

[ASM59]

Good Day,

 

We had a similar situation with Scouts that were always being accused of bullying but there was no evidence of it other than the accusations. We finally decided to change our disciplinary tactics. We called a meeting of all boys and parents. We announced that our Troop was taking a zero tolerance approach to bullying. We also stated that false accusations of bullying would be dealt with just as severely.

 

Our approach was that on the first incident, the Scout would receive a 3 month suspension from outings and a parent must accompany them to meetings. A second incident would mean removal from the Troop. All parents agreed to this as a necessary step.

 

We had one incident 3 months ago with one of the boys who was always being accused of bullying. He received his 3 month suspension. He did not come to meetings or outings for 3 months. One week before Summer Camp, he called up and asked if he could still go to camp with us. I told him that it would be great for him to come, but that he must behave himself. He agreed. He came to camp and behaved like a model Scout.

 

I might add that we have had zero accusations of bullying since this boy was suspended. I hope it keeps working...

 

ASM59

[Lisabob]

Is Scott an only child by any chance?

 

I am in complete agreement with Eamonn that whether or not this boy is a "little toad" it isn't right to utterly dismiss his accusations and assume he's not telling the truth here. Doing so is a danger because it sends him the message that the adults aren't going to believe him anyway, so why bother turning to them when there's a bigger problem.

 

As to whether he's the victim or the instigator - or both. I have noticed that only children are particularly weak at reading these kinds of situations and may not recognize their own role in egging the problem on. But that doesn't mean the other boy, who is older and hopefully more emotionally mature, should get off the hook for his responses either. So it's our job to teach both kids these skills, as best we can.

 

I've watched this dynamic with my own son (only child, just turned 12) and one older boy in the troop who both loves to play with the younger kids and has a reputation for bullying the younger kids. The older boy (who has a little brother) likes to engage in horse play but he's also been known to get too rough and get suddenly moody, to be short tempered and call kids names, etc.. Suddenly the younger kids feel they're being picked on, rather than playing and having fun. Watching from a distance - I've pointed out to my son later on that you can't always have it both ways, if you're going to intentionally nip at a kid even in fun (like puppies almost!), then sooner or later the boy may snap back at you. In this regard (learning important social skills) scouting has been great for my son but it has led to bruises - both physical and emotional.

 

As for the older boy, well he's not entirely innocent either, as he does have a reputation for physically "testing" boys. Those who knock him head over tea kettle (in "friendly horse play") once or twice never seem to have a problem again. Those who don't, well...

 

And as a Scouter I'm not entirely thrilled about this pattern because it has resulted in some of the more sensitive younger boys having seriously hurt feelings and that's no good from a retention standpoint or from the point of fulfilling our obligation to make scouting a safe haven for all boys.

 

OK sorry for rambling. Here's a potential action plan. Maybe you can try to come up w/ a "code word" so that the younger boy knows when he is maybe getting too much on the fraying patience of this particular older boy, and so that the older boy knows when he's going too far and potentially upsetting or hurting the younger boy. This requires a serious explanation that the code word has to be "honored" and not just flung around to save yourself from retaliation every time you needle each other. But at these ages, boys may take this kind of thing seriously enough for it to work for at least a while. And it will help them - esp. if they are only children - to learn to see where that fine line is between slightly rough play and harrassment.

 

Oh yeah, and as for dealing with "mom" - make sure you keep her in the loop in terms of what you're doing. Also ask her advice about how she would like you to handle this situation and maybe her insights into her son's behavior/viewpoints, keeping in mind that you'll have to get all sides of the story, of course. One thing that is just about guaranteed to bring out my "Mama Bear" side is when my son comes back from a campout all upset and the SM doesn't communicate with me about the situation. Even if I disagree with his handling, at least I want to know...

 

Lisa'bob

[wildhog]

We got to the bottom of the whole situation last night. It turns out that Harry was just tired of Scott poking everyone with the walking stick and Scott was also throwing rocks. So Harry decided to take matter into his own hands and threw the stick into the woods and then into the lake.

 

It was almost humorous to watch the look on Scott's mom's face when Harry told her that that's all there was to it and that Scott had not been entirely truthful when he admitted to throwing rocks. Apparently Scott told his mom that Harry was looking for revenge for something that Scott did to Harry's sister years ago and that Harry picked on him for no reason.

 

Unfortunately both boys have decided to quit the Troop. Scott's mom cites that Scott has been continually picked on since he joined and summer camp was the last straw. The truth is that he has never made any attempt to try and fit in and has picked on the other Scouts himself. My opinion is that he has been manipulating his mom all along to make things sound worse than they were so she would let him quit. He really did not want to be in Scouts and would rather be playing sports.

 

Harry was never really invested in the program either. He was always screwing around (not maliciously, just looking for attention).

 

I never like to see any boys quit but I have to say that Scott's patrol always seemed to function better when he didn't come on an outing.

 

What disappoints me the most is the way both parties handled the situation. Harry for not coming to an adult and Scott's famlily for not coming to me at camp on Friday night. Instead they made a snap judgement that Scott was the victim and accused everyone else of wrongdoing. The part I find both amusing and sad is that Scott's mom is in charge of training (leadership, conflict resolution, etc.)for her employer.

 

Thanks for all of your responses.

 

WildHog

 

"Go SpeedGoats!"

[evmori]

Scouting isn't for every boy & every boy isn't for Scouting. While we all hate to lose Scouts, there are times when attrition can be a good thing for all concerned. This is one of those times.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10