Splitting a small troop into two patrols

[eghiglie 10]

 

Hello, I tried to look some previous posts but didn't find any information.

 

I'm the SM of a small Troop of 9 boys, right now, there is the following spread of Scouts

 

17 year old Life Scout, Troop Guide

16 year old Star Scout, SPL

12 year old 2nd class, ASPL

11 year old 2nd class, PL

 

13 year old, Tenderfoot

12 year old, Tenderfoot

 

Three 12 year old Scouts, all new to Scouting

 

The 16 and 17 year old will remain in those jobs, they are doing great at it and the boys have come a long way with them.

 

The two 2nd class boys have been in Scouting over a year and are former cubbies. So they are doing well at learning to lead even though they are younger. They will soon be 1st Class with just a few more items.

 

The SPL is looking at splitting the Troop into 2 patrols as soon as they make 1st class in a the next month or so. Its a great idea but the "how to split" is tricky.

 

The SPL was suggesting a running race and splitting the boys wether they placed odd or even? Sadly some kids don't run at all!

 

Any suggestions on how to best split the boys up? Should it be a lottery? Should it be Rock, Paper, Scissors? Guess a number?

 

The last thing we want is for the adults to pick the names out but the adults want a fair system for doing this. Meaning, not a popularity contest.

 

 

 

 

[click23 66]

Assuming that the SPL appoints the same ASPL, here is what I would do if I were him:

 

Patrol 1

11 year old 2nd class

13 year old, Tenderfoot

12 year old, Tenderfoot

17 year old Life Scout, Troop Guide

let these 4 elect a PL and APL from the 3 younger guys.

 

Patrol 2 new scout patrol, let them elect a PL

 

The 17 y/o might do better being considered part of the "Leadership Corps". Even though it is not part of the program right now, not sure how he would fit in a patrol with 11, 12 and 13 y/os.

 

Small troops can have a tough time making the patrol method work.

 

 

[Eagledad 2780]

>>The SPL is looking at splitting the Troop into 2 patrols

[Beavah 205]

Yah, I'm with Eagledad.

 

What's your attendance like?

 

With only nine boys, I'd guess that attendance on any given event would be around 6 boys. That's the perfect size for a patrol! Even a full 9 is just fine.

 

Two patrols of 3 (or less if attendance is lower or is uneven) guarantees that Patrol Method will frequently "collapse" or fall apart on events. So yeh wouldn't be gettin' the real benefit anyways. I'd keep things together for now.

 

Once you get a bit bigger, say 14-16 boys or so, then there's three different ways to go and a whole bunch of permutations of those:

 

1) Take two most "ready to lead" older boys as PL's and have 'em form teams of friends of various ages (similar to your race/pick alternates idea). This gives you "vertical" or "mixed age" patrols - great for patrol competition and havin' "natural" experienced older boy leaders.

 

2) Keep all the older boys in one patrol and add a second patrol of New Scouts. This will gradually create "horizontal" patrols of same-age friends. Makes running "classes" for boys at about the same level easier.

 

3) Just let the kids pick. And if it doesn't work, let 'em pick again. This often leads to same-age patrols and sometimes gets cliquey. But they're with who they want to be with, eh? And that can teach a lot about community, too.

 

 

[mdutch 10]

The question of if you should split, is a separate one from how to split them up. But I would say that if the SPL thinks it should be tried, go for it. As to how, I recommend having each scout write down the names of one or two people that they want to be a patrol in, and turning that piece of paper in to the SPL. Then sit down with the SPL and try to figure out how to make the most boys happy.

[eghiglie 10]

So far attendance has been 8 or 9 boys at the weekly Troop meetings, campouts have averaged 6 to 7 boys.

 

The reason the SPL would like to get to 2 patrols is that he is very close to 17 and wants to make sure that a few boys can run for SPL next April.

 

The 17 year old Troop Guide ages out in March and is then headed to college out of the country.

 

The two second class have started teaching the younger boys but they both would rather teach smaller groups.

 

 

[Eagledad 2780]

Very impressive. When I read about scouts in a troop like this, I want to personally meet the SM because it take a special person of wisdom and patience to not only encourage such leadership, but to also get out of the way.

 

I only have a couple suggestions to add to the already good advice. First, let the scouts do the choosing so they are buying into the idea and have some ownership. Second, be honest about your concerns and gaols for the change. I find when the adults are up front about changes, the scouts will do the best they can to ease the concerns.

 

Hope you hang around, I really enjoy reading about your program. Are you close to Oklahoma?

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

[LongHaul 10]

If you split my vote is to let the boys make the choices. I'd say don;t split into two patrols right now. Your 17 year old could remain a TG or become a JASM. Your 16 year old stays SPL and the 12 year old ASPL stays as such. They become the "Leadership Core" aka "Senior Patrol" even though "LC"is not used anymore the functions it provided can still be utilized. This leaves a patrol of 6 PL, APL and 4 scouts. What are your recruitment prospects for February March crossovers?

 LH

[gwd-scouter 11]

eghiglie, the number and age distribution of guys in your troop looks so much like ours. We've been operating as a single patrol troop, but given the fact that we have near 100% participation, a couple new Scouts joining in December (bringing our total to 12), and a noticeable alignment of the Scouts into two groups over the past several months, it may be time for our troop to break into 2 patrols. Look forward to an update from you about what your troop decides to do.

[acco40 95]

First of all, maybe the SPL wants to split into two patrols but do the rest of the Scouts? I see an SPL, ASPL and then seven other boys. To split seven would require a patrol of 4 and a patrol of 3. I think the minimum for a patrol is 4. I don't think you have the numbers but if it is almost unanimous that it is what the boys want to do (make sure they are not just doing it to create a POR) go for it.

 

Keep in mind that you may get crossing over Weblelos in three months! What do you do then? I would wait until then and then let the boys pick a patrol of their peers (who they want) and then let them pick their PL. Do not pick/assign PLs and then put Scouts into their patrol. That is a recipe for disaster.

[ozemu 10]

Small patrols of members under 15 years really don't work very well in my experience. Unless there are four or more on camp the chores are pretty hard to get through. They also tend to get on each others nerves a bit. That could be due to the chores or not enough personalities to make it interesting. Not that small Patrols cannot work - it's just harder for those involved.

 

If however the small Patrol is expecting new members that is different. They can hang in there getting the Patrol system working in prep for the recruits.

 

I would advise the SPL to look at the numbers who get to camp. Again I advise a plan that aims to get more than four per Patrol. If that means a Patrol of eight with an average of four dropping out for camps then that is what he should look at. If camp attendance is 100% then go for a small Patrol of four.

 

I cannot comment on Scouts aged over 15 in small Patrols.

 

As for how to do the split if that is chosen; I suggest that each Scout be asked to nominate two others who they get along with and then the SPL tries to match at least one of those in the Patrol with them. It is a real juggle but it also helps the new Patrol to bond if every Scout has one good mate in their Patrol.

[eghiglie 10]

Thanks very much for all these suggestions.

 

I printed these out and when I saw the SPL and ASPL earlier we chatted about this. When we take out the 3 boy leaders (SPL, ASPL and TG) we are down to 6 boys.

 

We're expecting a few Webelos in Feb to cross over so at that point we'll figure out a method to split the boys then. 2 younger brothers are coming over along with another boy.

 

The two second class boys just have to visit with the local mayor in Jan to complete 1st class and then they will will ready to each lead a patrol. So the timing will be right to make the changes after the new boys come in.

 

Part of this is to let the two younger brothers have some space of their own.

 

 

[LongHaul 10]

My suggestion is between now and February have your SPL/ASPL/ TG work on teaching the rest of the troop the finer points of Effective Teaching (watch me, I watch you , you teach him), Communications ( I know you believe you understand what you think I just said but I'm not sure if you realize that what you heard is not what I meant) Setting the Example (understanding the concept of making your attitude, appearance, and approach one that commands the respect of others). We prepare for outings, we prepare for First Aid meets, we prepare.. Prepare for these new scouts and the program you will present.

LH

[Stosh 3452]

Why not just make everyone have a POR and forget about having a patrol?

 

Otherwise with just 9 boys, I see no reason for a SPL or ASPL along with a PL and APL. If the patrol method is being used what's the reason for an SPL and ASPL except to duplicate the leadership corps and cause confusion as to who's running the patrol.

 

Until one has enough boys to maintain two 8 boy patrols, there's no need for POR's that are purely "traditional" and non-functional.

 

A PL and APL with an older boy TG should be sufficient for the other 6 boys.

 

Too often we have non-functioning POR's just to get credit for advancement. It surely sounds that this top-heavy leadership over 3-4 boys is rather obvious.

 

Stosh

[T164Scoutmaster 10]

Oh Boy, you are hitting a nail with my hammer.

 

1993 I helped to resurrect a troop of papaer names and with the help of some great leaders and a support system we brought the troop to 35 active 40 registered in four years. When I left the area it wasn't but two years and the troop folded. The early days are the hardest and it takes a lot of work. If you have never had to deal with less then 12 kids you really have nothing to say as it is a whole new ball of wax.

 

Well here it is now 2007 and I find myself back in the middle of resurrecting this troop what once was the oldest continuous registered troop in NH if Not New England (original Charter 1915)was up until July un chartered for the last 5 years.

 

Currently we have eight registered kids all 12 and under. The only leadership is my assistant scoutmasters that were all my scouts from before.

 

Why have 2 patrols? First it is what the Senior Patrol Leaders wants. The Senior Patrol Leader is the designated leader of the Boy Run Troop. After all it should be the Boys running the troop. The Senior Patrol leader had a great reasoning why he thought it prudent. "so there will be more available leaders with some experience to run for SPL when he leaves" That takes insight and shows responsibility and loyalty to the troop. Robert Baden Powel Said the Ideal Troop is 32 youth. He also said that a troop is not a troop wihtout at least 2 patrols. The founder of our organization recognized that part of the learning process within the scouting movement was to create an atmosphere where boys strive to be better and learn from their mistakes. Inter patrol activities and competition is how this is accomplished.

 

The younger boys are more inquisisitve and always strive to be better then the older boys (my experience here.) It is tough to see a program work this way with small patrol sizes, but creates an excellent opportunity to stress the ideal patrol of eight scouts and an excellent opportunity to do a recruitment drive offer a prize or reward for the first patrol to get to eight.

 

I currently have 2 patrols. The grouping of the patrol happened on it self. The Troop elected its SPL and the SPL chose his ASPL they were the start of one patrol the other 4 11 year olds were in the same weblos as the spl and ASPL so they chose to be their own patrol and the remaining two scouts 12 year olds opted to join the SPL and ASPL. It worked out that way. The decision should be decided by the boys how it is to work out. give them some ideas but let htem choose how the plan is activated.

 

The leadership Corps is a great idea too bad the higher ups don't see the use for it.

 

The boys can do some great things if you let them. Recruiter strips are a good incentive. have a sit down conversation with your SPL and ask for three differen't plans to split up the troop, have him use the troop to figure out his plans then let the troop vote on which plan they like.

 

I hope it all works out for you. Look forward to teh results!