yanni1357 10 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 If enough scouts choose to have a re-election for SPL elections because they are unhappy with the results, do they have the right to do that? Link to post Share on other sites
Twocubdad 665 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 If a scout in my troop asked this question, I'd pull up a couple chairs, sit down, get comfortable, put my feet up and ask him, "okay, so what's going on?" Whether or not you can, the better question is should you? Is that really going to get the troop where it needs to be? Does it solve the problem or create more? The real answer is "it depends." Some troops have fixed election schedules. Some just informally shift leadership whenever it seems right. Our troop has elections every six months with a unwritten rule -- more of a guideline -- that you don't hold office the same office more than two consecutive terms. It would be highly unusual to have such a recall election and as SM, I would strongly counsel against it. I think it would set a very poor precedence on several levels. There are so many better ways to try to solve problems. Link to post Share on other sites
moosetracker 132 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I don't think you will find a written law of "Can" or "Can't".. This would be up to the Troop Leaders.. A personal opinion though is that I don't see it as fair to the SPL elected, unless he has done stuff that would warrent an impeachment.. If it is something that the favorite candidate was out of town on election day, well the favorite can wait for the next election.. Even if it had something to do with half the troop was out at band practice and not there to vote. Then that should have been a concern and a request to move the election off a week would have been the more proper solution then to have a boy elected, and then have it yanked away from him before he is able to do the job.. I am sure many of us would like a do over for the Presidential election, we too have to wait the 4 years out.. Troop elections are not so long of a wait.. My feeling is to wait it out, and have the boys work with their elected SPL, to improve on his job while in office rather then tearing him down, and not giving him the respect he deserves.. Again if he did something to be impeached for, then that should be a discussion with the SM, and the SM should decide if he should forfeit the position over his actions. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 You will find that in relation to units, there are few formal rules. In reference to the SPL, what is going on to make folks unhappy? Sometimes you have to counsel and advise your SPL, after all they are usually teenagers who might have limited expereince being a leader. They need to learn, grow, make mistakes, and improve in their expereince as SPL. Also sometimes folks need to live with their mistakes. If the troop elected the guy for his popularity, then they need to see that the most popular guy does not always make the best leader. Sometimes it's the person who few to any think will be the best choice sometimes proves everyone wrong, and is the best choice. Abe Lincoln was one of those. And sometimes "impeachment" is the best choice if teh problems are serious enough. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Every time someone starts asking about one's "rights" and what's the "rules" and it's written in our "bylaws", I thinking there is something more serious going on than just the surface comment proposed. Whenever there is talk about ousting someone, that's level 5 conflict, cannot be resolved is probably going to be doing some significant damage to the operations of that troop. So, I'd be looking for the root cause of the problem rather than just shuffling leadership around at the top hoping things just go away. So to answer the question... Sure, why not. Try something different than what you've been doing because what you have been doing has gotten you into this problem in the first place. Your mileage may vary, Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
John-in-KC 311 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Like others, What's the deeper problem? It's time for the SM to make haste slowly and listen lots. Link to post Share on other sites
Beavah 205 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Hi yanni, welcome to da forums, eh? Scoutin' is a game to help young lads learn about character and citizenship. The Scoutmaster is the referee. So, if the Scoutmaster feels that allowin' a recall election is the best way to teach all the boys about character and citizenship, then he/she should do that. If the Scoutmaster feels that's da wrong lesson for the SPL or the boys, then he or she should say "no." Different troops establish different traditions, eh? Some have SPLs with fixed 6-month or 1-year terms. Some have SPLs that don't have fixed terms, and just serve until their successor is elected and qualified. Some have da whole troop vote, some only have the PLC vote because the SPL is the chair of the PLC, not the leader of the troop. No "rules", eh? Other than that the Scoutmaster should set thing up as best he/she can to teach the boys character and citizenship. Beavah Link to post Share on other sites
yanni1357 10 Posted February 23, 2011 Author Share Posted February 23, 2011 Thank you very much for all your replies, i think that i understand now that even if now they do realize they picked the popular candidate, we shall see soon if he was truly the best candidate. Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 yanni, What I took away from your question was not that the SPL has been doing a bad job, but that he is newly elected and some folks think he is the wrong pick. My answer to that is that elections are elections and you get what you voted for. You don't get a re-do because you don't like the results. Let me give you two for instances. A few years back, the boys were working on their annual calendar and picking where they wanted to go for the year. A scout threw out a different idea for a month that the troop had a "traditional" campout each year. The new idea won a vote. The SPL and ASPL didn't like the new idea and called for a second vote. The new idea got the most votes again. They argued their case and called for a third vote. The new place got the most votes again. When they called for a fourth vote, we adults stepped in and reminded them that the majority wins and we don't keep revoting because they don't like the majority vote. This year as our OA election teams were visiting troops and holding elections, we had a group of adults who didn't like the way the elections turned out in their troop. It seems they had a couple of 17 year old Eagle Scouts that they felt should have been elected who were not. They requested a second election which we will not do unless there was a procedural issue. I reminded them that the way a boy votes for a candidate in an OA election isn't always the way an adult would. While the adults thought the older Eagles should be elected, I reminded them that given the instructions the scouts were in what to look for in a candidate, were these Eagles friendly and helpful to the boys? They never answered. An election process isn't open to revotes when we don't like them or they are meaningless. We live with the results until the next election. The one difference is if the SPL is months into his tenure and he isn't doing the job. Perhaps he should be removed at that point and a new election held or the ASPL takes his place. Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4345 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Never had a request for impeachement. But I had one boy approach me and say "__ is not a good SPL." I replied, "So, how are you going to help him be a better SPL?" I've also had the committee complain about certain issues regarding leadership and discipline among the boys, and admitted that the boys elected the "popular", not the "most effective" leader. Link to post Share on other sites
Lisabob 13 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Sometimes that can go the other way, too. Sometimes the "popular" boy is not the one elected - the one who wants to actually do the job is elected. And then the "popular" boy (or his parents & their friends) start putting up a fuss about how the election wasn't fair or the boy who is trying to actually do the job isn't meeting their standards, etc. Under those conditions, any talk of re-dos seems to be sour grapes, plain and simple. If the boy is struggling (but trying) with the job and others complain, then I like qwaze's question: "How are you going to help him be a better SPL?" If the boys truly elected a poor choice, then I also like: "How will you choose differently, next time around?" Link to post Share on other sites
springrobin 10 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 We had this happen a few years ago. The SPL exhibited extreme discourtesy to an ASM at summer camp even going so far as to call him a foul name. The matter was brought up to the Committee who agreed that the ASM involved handled the matter appropriately from the beginning of the confrontation (and with more patience than many would have had). The Committee (including the Scout's parent) voted that a new SPL should be elected; however, no details would be given as to why. Although some olders Scouts were aware of the situation, they kept quiet. There were big questions (unanswered) among the other Scouts as to why an election was being held on a non-election date and none of the Scouts eligible for the position really wanted it under the circumstances. One finally volunteered to take the job and had to talk another Scout into being ASPL (as the previous ASPL had also stepped down). It wasn't a pleasant tenure for the new SPL & ASPL as they hadn't been truly elected and didn't feel they had the support of the troop. This was an unusual situation that needed to be addressed but there were certainly no winners. Link to post Share on other sites
RememberSchiff 3683 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Springrobin, Welcome to the forum. Why wasn't this matter handled by your SM and PLC instead of your Troop Committee? Link to post Share on other sites
springrobin 10 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 The SM did step in. It didn't occur to any of us to involve the PLC, though. The behavior was not between two Scouts and handling it confidentially seemed to be the right thing to do at the time. Only a couple of older Scouts were aware of (and aghast at) the incident. The ASM involved reported that an apology had been given but the committee felt that wasn't sufficient. It was suggested that the SPL announce he would be stepping down early due to sports activities. Not sure how things would have gone at the PLC level. That SPL had been churlish and rude to just about everyone during his tenure. Fortunately for him, he worked out his issues, stayed with the troop and grew up. He should be having his Eagle Board of Review shortly. Link to post Share on other sites
RememberSchiff 3683 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Thanks for your follow-up and involvement. Should be an interesting Eagle Board of Review, hope the successful turnaround continues. Link to post Share on other sites
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