Fresh perspective Troop Guidelines

[Buffalo Skipper 13]

Our troop is in the midst of some changes. This is a good thing. Our committee's spine is slowly evolving from all cartilage to something a little bonier. We are recruiting new, capeable adults (ASMs) who are going through training and open to new ideas. We are recruiting new scouts at an unexpected pace and we are training our scouts to lead the troop.

 

In the midst of all this, we are seriously looking at everything we do with the troop, and I have spoken of many of these things from time to time here on the forum. A recent conversation with our committee chair led to a discussion about putting into writing many of our policies. No, we are not talking about By-laws, but about policy guidelines. Specifically, we talked about: Fundraising, Advancement, Uniforming, Electronics, Discipline, Fundraising, and Parental Participation. By chance, I had already (several months ago) created a part of a similar document to cover things, but it was completely followed up on by the committee (different CC). The idea is not to enforce rules, but to provide a clearly defined framework of expectation for the benefit of the scouts, leadership and parents.

 

Untimately, this will be organized by a "sub-committee," but it was suggested that a select group of troop leadership present said committee with a draft document, pretty much ready to go that they could tweak, rather than giving less experienced leaders a blank slate to create their own vision of organization, which may be completely detached from the current leadership's expectations.

 

On the forum, we have recently talked about Electronics, so unless you feel compelled, we can skip that (the ideas presented a few months ago were excellent, by the way). I consider us to be a "fully uniformed" troop, so again that discussion issue is pretty much settled in our organization. Discipline, though discussed here at length in other threads is something I would like to revisit, but the same applies to advancement and parental participation.

 

I am not looking to draft a legislative document, but more of a set of broad guidelines, at times being specific and at others being more vague, as some situations need flexibility. Certainly, this is a broad topic, but what advice would you offer on these areas?

[Stosh 3452]

Hmmm, I guess I've never put anything down on paper. Our troop has only three "rules" by which we operate and they are vague and open to a lot of interpretation and offers no recourse if problems arise.

 

1) Safety first.

2) Look and act like a scout.

3) Have fun.

 

Rule #2 suffices for any and all disciplinary processes that come up on occasion. Looking like a scout means full uniform, clean and buttoned up, tucked in, and looking the way it is supposed to look. Acting like a scout encompasses the Oath and Law. Because nothing is written down, there's nothing to exactly measure against. If there is any room for interpreting a fraction of an inch here and there, the boys will find it. If left vague, my only comment would be, "I wonder if that falls into the category of not acting like a scout?" and let it go at that. Anything really serious kind of automatically shifts into Rule #1. If there's hazing or bullying going on, that shifts into Rule #3.

 

Although they are all somewhat similar in degree, they seem to cover all the bases in our troop. Cell phones? We've lost several boys over the past couple of years due to homesickness and cell phones. Several boys regretted offering the help of a cell phone only to lose them from the troop. Now boys all leave their cell phones at home so they don't have to lend them out. IPods? Ever wonder why the SM waits until he sees ear buds in boys ears before making important announcements? It really sucks to miss out on things.

 

Stosh

 

[Lisabob 13]

I'll keep my input general:

 

1. Don't write anything into your policies that you aren't 110% sure you will actually implement. My son's troop has a policy guide book such as you describe. It is chock full of stuff they don't actually adhere to, and it becomes a favorite vehicle through which some folks to attempt micro-manage the troop.

 

2. In light of the above, don't let this policy book grow like kudzu until it chokes out all opportunities for the boys (via the PLC) to make their own decisions. Otherwise, be prepared for the following dialog.

 

Adult: "You can't do that"

Youth leader: "Why?"

Adult: "Because the Troop Handbook, section 3, paragraph 9, sub-section zzz says so!"

 

(Sure, this is not what you intend, but it can happen quickly!)

 

 

[AvidSM 11]

The troop that I started scouting with has a set of written guidlines very similar to what you are proposing. I have also seen copies of other troop's guidlines, most of which are full of common sense thinking. It's a good idea for a unit to formalize these guidlines, especically fundraising, discipline and advancement.

 

I have seen several units lose scouting families due to fundraising issues. Make sure that you guidlines are very clear about who gets what portion of the profit from which fundraisers.

 

Discipline is a subject that a unit has to be clear on - when and how it is applied and who applies it. For a troop, some disciplinary actions can be handled by the youth leaders, others the Committee has to be involved. For this reason, each troop should have a Code of Conduct, adopted by the PLC. This document typically states that the Scout Oath and Law are the only rules. Most importantly, it lists the actions the PLC will take if the rules are broken.

 

When it comes to advancement, a scout should recieve immediate recognition -but that does not always happen. A set of advancement guidlines should be clear on how Scoutmaster Conferences and Boards of Review are scheduled and held.

 

Whatever your unit decides these guidlines to be, everyone should get a copy. That way, everyone understands how your unit operates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[shortridge 184]

On all of those topics you mentioned, I don't see much of a reason for guidelines or policies or what-have-you. There's no reason for the committee to hash these things out when there's already a body in the troop that should be addressing these issues - the Patrol Leaders' Council. But let's look at them item by item.

 

Advancement certainly doesn't need guidelines. It's up to the Scouts. The only thing that the unit might want to address is who pays for the badges & pins - and that's an easy thing to make a decision on.

 

Fundraising should be organized by the PLC. No committee involvement needed to develop guidelines.

 

Uniforming is a non-issue, by your own description.

 

Electronics use is a decision that can be made by the PLC with advice from the SM.

 

Discipline on really serious issues should be handled by the SM in consultation with parents. The committee shouldn't really get involved. Issues of minor discipline can be left up to the PL or PLC.

 

Parental participation is an odd subject, considering that Boy Scouting isn't a parent-kid program. Parents should support their own children; if they have time, they should be encouraged to volunteer and get involved on doing things only adults can do, driving vehicles or using heavy equipment or whatnot.

 

Remember ... an adult should never do anything a boy can do. That goes for guidelines just as much as cooking a meal or setting up a monkey bridge.

 

Addendum: Speaking generally, I really dislike the use of the word "committee" to describe the group of adults that support the unit Scouting program. It's not a problem if run correctly, but in the hands of grownups who think the Committee is a policy-making, rule-drafting, legislative, powerful body like on C-SPAN ... well, it can create a mess.

[John-in-KC 311]

Mostly, what shortridge and Lisa said!

 

If you decide to have policy documents, IMO you need to get the blessing of your COR for them. It's their unit, after all.

[Eamonn 61]

Skipper,

While I'm OK with going along with what works!

I kinda think that for me, what you are trying to do has a little bit too much starch??

All of us, adults and youth are in this organization for fun, the kids join not to have a character overhaul or because they have a yearning to learn about making ethical choices.

The adults remain in because they like what they are doing.

The best "Adult Leadership Teams" are made up of people who are friends and are able to get along with each other. (Having fun.)

 

I don't in any way want or wish to put down any of the people that I have met over the years. But the other day I was thinking about people who make the program work and really come to life. The list I came up with wasn't very long, in fact I only came up with two people!

One a very close and dear friend, the other a Sea Scouter from another state.

Both of these guys, just seem to have a wonderful way of selling the program to the youth they serve.

Both are wonderful communicators, both have found a way, even after many years of being leaders to remain enthusiastic and find ways of making things fun and challenging for the youth.

These two both have a deep understanding of what the program really is and both have outstanding skills which they are able to pass on to the Scouts, which helps make the program more challenging and more fun.

The uniform standard for both units is something to be seen. It is outstanding, not because of any rule or that sort of thing, just because!

I have spend over 30 years trying to be a good as one of these guys, the other I only met about five or six years back.

For my part, I don't need or want a committee to make me a better leader, I would hope that I would work on that myself. Sure I want the committee to support me in enabling the unit to provide a program that is challenging.

Part of the job of the SM or Skipper is having the ASM's or Mates do things the way he wants them done. While I'm all for the BSA training's, but real on the job training is where the rubber meets the road.

When I look at both these guys, both have what I'd call charisma.

Both really enjoy what they do and have found ways of passing that enjoyment on to the Scouts.

Rather than spending time on putting things down on paper, I would use that time to try and get a better grasp of what I was trying to do, look for ways to make things more of a challenge and fun for the Scouts and truly become an Imagineer.

Once the Scouts are deeply engrossed in what they are doing, once they are really enjoying what the Troop is doing all the other stuff just seems to fall into place.

Ea.

[Eagledad 2785]

Guidelines and Policies can be good or bad, but they are just about always a restriction of freedom.

 

I understand the idea of wanting printed guidelines, especially for the new families. The problem I learned through time is that nothing remains constant. In most cases, guidelines, policies, rules and so forth were put in writing to prevent repeating a negative experience. However, we find later down the road that they also in turn are restrictions of freedoms that can hold back the program. For example: somehow an immature young first class scout is elected SPL and the troop program suffers for six months. The reaction is the new policy that all SPLs have the minimum rank of Star or life, thus keeping mature scouts in the position. Then in the not to distant future a once in a lifetime natural super leader who also hates advancement finds he cant run for SPL. No logical reason why he shouldnt run for SPL because he certainly is the most qualified scout you have had in years. Yet, there is that policy. I have the shirt, believe me and the scars of a scout so frustrated by the system that he quit.

 

The risk of policies, rules, and such are that while they may protect the program from past negative experiences, they also can restrict future growth.

 

Discipline is the same way; just soon as the troop comes up with a great three times and you are out policy, you find some scouts should have had only one or two strikes while others needed four. Even worse is that the PLC is held to their own policy in writing. Those of us who have done this a while understand that experience develops wisdom and wisdom changes everything in how to handle future events. Or more important, the opportunities to grow from handling future events. Do you really want to restrict the growth of wisdom?

 

And, I dont trust those leaders who say we are only led by the scout law either or similar philosophical guidence. I have found many of these idealistic theorists to be the most rigid in unwritten laws. Sometimes the danger isn't what is in written, but what is highly suggested by the intimidating Scoutmaster. Is it so hard to ask the scouts to read their handbooks and develop their habits accordingly to see where they go?

 

I cant say guidelines arent good because I find newer units with lesser experienced adults and scouts need some temporary guidelines to hold back confusion and chaos until they have the confidence to handle more difficult situations. I remember our PLC created a rule that scouts had to write reports on the scout laws they broke when they were called down for discipline. At the time that was the crutch they needed to hold scouts accountable. But that change about a year later as they got better at controlling misbehavior on the spot. They grew and matured and didnt need the crutch anymore..I could have forced it to happen, but it would in the long run take them longer to understand. Adults are the same as you know, it was the adults who set the rule of minimum Star rank for the SPL. Silly us, we sure learn the hard way on that one.

 

Weve gotten to know you and your program from your post. I think you are more than a reasonable leader with a good intuition for the program and it would be condescending to give a flat ya or nay to your question. We all have to growth to our best potental. You know better what your program needs to maintain growth and maturity. But I will suggest that if you decide that some guidelines need to be put in writing, then also add a line or two that reads something like" Nothing is concrete. Scouting is a program where everyone is expected to grow and mature from their experiences. All policies are very subject to change so that we not restrict our continued growth".

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

[Lisabob 13]

"Discipline is the same way; just soon as the troop comes up with a great three times and you are out policy, you find some scouts should have had only one or two strikes while others needed four. "

 

Amen to that. This is exactly what happened with my son's troop. Used to be, there wasn't much in the way of a written discipline policy, but then a couple of boys who were the cause of much tension due to their constant, medium-level misbehavior, resulted in a change about 4 years ago. The change was a "3 strikes in a year and you're out" policy that was supposed to provide clear, progressive discipline.

 

Well, fine. Until about 2 years ago, when a different couple of boys started causing some fairly serious mayhem. It got to a point where another scout (seriously exasperated young man who was trying to protect younger fellows on the receiving end of some poor behavior by one of these problem scouts) said something like this recently: "So if I take a baseball bat and break some kid's kneecap and then I pick up a lead pipe and smack someone over the head, that's only 2 strikes - what you're saying is I can do that twice a year, right? And you'll all be ok with that?"

 

Just goes to show, a formal written policy such as a 3 strikes disciplinary policy might make sense at the time, but it can quickly become a set of handcuffs, as much as guidelines. And any of us who have worked in a bureaucracy of any sort, know that CHANGING policies is a serious source of stress, ill-will, and intrigue so don't count on "oh we can amend it later as needed" to save yourselves.

 

Be careful what you write down. Policies have a nasty habit of taking on lives of their own, especially after the original writers have all moved on and only the written policies remain.

 

 

 

[Twocubdad 665]

For a long time I thought everything we needed was in the Oath and Law, too. But over the past few years, the troop policy book has grown. It originally began as a new Scout/parent orientation book, but has grown to include some other stuff, too.

 

The bulk of it is the orientation material. Basically a distillation of what you would get from basic SM training, but for really targeting the parents.

 

We do include a four-page "Expectations for Scout Behavior" which is long on what we expect Scout to DO, not just what not to do. We have one list of minimum expectations, another list of expectations for Scouts wishing to advance or in Positions of Responsibility and another list of expectations of parents and adult leaders.

 

There is one section of Thou Shall Nots lifted from the council summer camp policy and is the same obvious stuff you see everywhere. There is a section on consequences which outlines the progression of responses from PLC to Scoutmaster to Committee. It is very clearly spelled out that the leadership will do what is appropriate each individual situation and DOES NOT try to create a standard list of punishments and infractions. One of our neighboring troops has something which resembles the Federal Uniform Sentencing Guidelines. They have a point system based on the seriousness and of the infraction. Good grief!

 

We do include an attendance policy based on old, no numerical standards approach, not the current registered=active approach. And no, I'm not going to discuss it, but thanks for asking!

 

There is a short section on uniforms (wear them), handbooks (bring them) and camp stoves (don't let them blow up) which was left over from the days when we had leaky liquid fuel stoves.

 

Obviously, I think our policy is pretty reasonable. Mostly because it really isn't a policy book as much as it is a Standard Operations Manual. It's more an attempt to capture some of the institutional knowledge we've gained. I frequently tell our Scouts not to pay tuitition for the same lessons twice.

 

I think one of the reasons for wanting a policy manual is that parent's expect one, especially when the metal meets the meat. How can you weasel your kid out of trouble if there's not loop to find a whole in? From that regard, our policy book is really a non-policy book. It very strongly says that the troop has the flexibility to do what it thinks best in any given situation.

[rdclements 10]

I know a unit very well that has taken the policy thing too far and it has wrecked them. They started out with the best intentions - to put together a summary document for the new parents.

 

Now everything is run by adults. The patrol method is dead. The Scouts do not feel drawn into leadership and problem solving because everything is already "in the notebook."

Signing up for an outing requires multi-part forms or filling out an spreadsheet online.

Merit badge classes are common - "You better sign up soon because this is the only CitNat class we're doing this spring."

Now they are requiring all the Scouts to sign a behavior pledge document before going to summer camp. This was once a top unit in our area.

 

[SSScout 1619]

Aye, they be guidelines mostly...

 

Back in pre nylon days, (canvas tents) my Troop had policy... it was handed down, senior Scout to newbie, SPL to PLC to Scouts. Verbally. No sneakers on hikes and overnights, good boots only. "regular" shoes for uniform, not sneakers. Uniform with unipants, at Tmeetings, in public, when traveling. Long socks if in shorts. No hot dogs or balogna on campouts. Patrol gear was kept by the Patrol QM, and was NOT to be returned dirty or wet.

Make sure you show your parents the mimeographed(!) schedule they handed out at the Tmeeting for the next three months.

Behavior problems? Usually peer response was sufficient. If not, SM was "in loco parentis" (no, I didn't know that term then)in all things. You DIDNOT want the SM to speak to your parents about ANYTHING except at the CoH.

 

 

[SSScout 1619]

Aye, they be guidelines mostly...

 

Back in pre nylon days, (canvas tents) my Troop had policy... it was handed down, senior Scout to newbie, SPL to PLC to Scouts. Verbally. No sneakers on hikes and overnights, good boots only. "regular" shoes for uniform, not sneakers. Uniform with unipants, at Tmeetings, in public, when traveling. Long socks if in shorts. No hot dogs or balogna on campouts. Patrol gear was kept by the Patrol QM, and was NOT to be returned dirty or wet.

Make sure you show your parents the mimeographed(!) schedule they handed out at the Tmeeting for the next three months.

Behavior problems? Usually peer response was sufficient. If not, SM was "in loco parentis" (no, I didn't know that term then)in all things. You DIDNOT want the SM to speak to your parents about ANYTHING except at the CoH.

 

 

[Mike F 10]

We have a few written things which could be called guidelines:

 

1. New Parents Orientation not list of policy, just general stuff about how we do business especially as it contrasts with Cub/Webelos.

 

2. Fund Raising Policy we allow boys to keep portion of any money they earned in a Scout Bucks account within troop treasury. To avoid misunderstandings, we wrote it down. Its in the New Parents Orientation.

 

3. Leadership Development Process to clarify a few things which apply to PORs, we wrote them down. Most of it was already in handbooks, but most dont read all of those and it was just easier to turn it into a 1-pager. This includes election/selection process of all leaders and our philosophy for leadership development and rank advancement. This is very handy when parents have questions about their son and PORs.

 

[Buffalo Skipper 13]

Wow! Great replies. I want to repond to each and every one, as every one has merits I want to learn more about; but that is not practical here. Instead, let me explain my place in all this, and a little more background. Years ago, there was a written troop bylaws, and before that, a troop policies sheet. These are so old that they predate electronic media and were typed and mimeographed. Of the active people in our troop, I hold the only known copies of these documents, and as no one really knows what actually is written there, these are not decreed to the troop as a method of rule.

 

Instead the troop has many oral policies. A large number of these are quite ridiculous, such as no marshmallows or no pancakes (both of these because of the mess they might create). These were enacted by old (but some still active) adults. I have worked hard to ease the strictness of this, but like the oral rules themselves, this has created problems, yet progress has been significant and positive.

 

One parent, working with her PL/son who was buying for a campout emailed me asking why the troop banned a cracker barrel or snacks for patrols. I replied that cracker barrels and snacks are encouraged, but that it should be a patrol effort with patrol food funds, and that individuals should not have food and snacks in their packs and tents. Clearly, to me, this was a misunderstanding, (perhaps exacerbated by the parent to make a point). This is one of several oral policies which are sometimes misunderstood by scouts and parents. So, one possible solution is put things in writing. Frankly, this is not the kind of thing I want to put in writing.

 

Our troop is young, as I have said repeatedly over the past 6 months. Activity guidelines which are good for our troop now, likely will not be so functional in 18 months when we have a larger and older troop. We may need to eliminate policies which no longer apply to more responsible and wizened scouts, while we may need to amend things to accommodate the expectations of future crossing Webelos.

 

On the same lines, the aforementioned PL constantly wants to wear different neckerchiefs to the meeting: OA, NYLT, NJjust about anything but the troop neckerchief. I, on the other hand, would prefer that he set the example for the scouts in his patrol and the troop by wearing the troop neckerchief. So our CC wants us to spell out exactly what is the troop uniform. Again, this is something already defined by the uniform insignia guide. As Stosh says, you cant legislate uniform wear by scouts, but you need to have an expectation which they can (eventually) adopt and enforce amongst themselves. We are 80% there but not quite all the way, yet. We do have our own uniform inspection sheet (designed around our uniforming expectations and easy to fill out for a patrol, using much less paper than the standard Boy Scout UI sheet).

 

Lisabob talks about turning this in to a kudzu like document, and I am struggling to keep this weed from growing out of control. I want the language to be exact but not so nit-picky that it becomes a cumbersome object, too unwieldy to actually use.

 

Much of my uniform draft is paraphrased from the insignia guide, but with less than a dozen sentences is much more concise. So for uniforms, here is what I have (well move on to other areas later):

 

IV. UNIFORMS:

A. Scouts and Scoutmasters are expected to wear their Class A uniforms at all meetings, unless otherwise specified in advance. Class A uniform is defined as a Uniform shirt (with all appropriate insignia), Scout pants and belt, Troop neckerchief and a slide (not tied in a knot), Scout socks, and appropriate footwear.

B. Scouts will travel to and from all campouts in a Class A uniform.

C. Scouts are encouraged to wear a Class B uniform while on outings. Class B uniform is defined as a troop or other BSA t-shirt and Scout pants or other similar colored pant; scout socks are preferred.

D. Merit Badge sashes should be worn for Court of Honors, for Star, Life, Eagle and Eagle Palm Boards of Reviews, and other special occasions.

E. There will be at least one uniform inspection each month.

F. The troop will maintain a uniform locker for scouts who need items. Families are encouraged to contribute old uniform items to the locker when older accessories no longer fit or when they are not used.

G. Sandals or any open toed shoes are not allowed as footwear at any meeting, activity or outing.

 

Please do not get off on a tangent about uniforms at BORs, as we have discussed that at length. This says should not must. The expectation is there, but the requirement is not. For the sake of uniform inspections, patrols are rewarded for their uniforming compliance, so they may suffer somewhat for not being attentative to their wear.

 

For the sake of uniforms, can I get some feedback, please?