NYLT Names

[ideadoc 10]

I am not sure about the rose smelling as sweet. People don't say that they drive a hybrid drive small car made by Toyota, they drive a Prius. People don't go to watch the National Football League team from Chicago, they cheer on the Bears.

 

Earlier posts about confusion about a course being an NYLT course or not, or about local courses taking liberties with the syllabus content are adequately addressed by the current policy of appending any local name with "NYLT" and by the committment to presenting the entire syllabus in the order it is written. I am not talking about breaking the rules. I am talking about a proven marketing strategy that works in all areas of the business world (and the Scouting world) not being used to give a local NYLT course some flavor, popularity, and intrigue. I still do not understand how, assuming that a course will not violate the current policy of having NYLT associated with the name and being committed to presenting the syllabus as written, that a local name negatively impacts the NYLT course.

[Bob White 20]

I don't see where anyone has said that it negatively impacts the course. The multiple names inhibit clear communications.

 

If every community had a different word for a football game and you were talking with them and they said they had just been to great White Stag, you wouldn't know they meant a football game.

 

It simply a matter of clarity in communicating.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[GernBlansten 10]

Jules: You know what they call a Quarter Pounder with cheese in France?

A Royale with cheese. You know why they call it that?

Brett: The metric system?

Jules: Check out the big brain on Brett!

(Pulp Fiction, 1994)

I just love that movie!

 

But when you walk into a McDonald's, you expect to be able to order a quarter pounder. Its a national chain. No local options.

Sounds like all the councils remain true to the NYLT syllabus, just relabel the package. Doesn't make much sense to me. If I go into a McDonald's and look up at the menu and don't see the Quarter Pounder but see the Royale with Cheese, then go to another and see the Boise Big Boy, I might get confused when I just wanted a Quarter Pounder. What national needs to come up with is some catchy label for the course that lends itself to great patches the councils can bling out. NYLT is kinda dull. Need something with more pizazz and mystique.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

I'm puzzled by the idea that the boys are really going to care what a course is called. Maybe that is true where some of you are, but not where I am. Since I have been re-involved in Scouting, both my council and district names have been changed by mergers, and I don't think the kids cared at all. Why should they, really? Some of the adults cared a little, but they got over it.

[Bob White 20]

When a scout tells someone outside of scouting, a potential employer for instance, that he went to Cedar Bark, do you think he would be as impressed as if the Scout said that he had been to the Boy Scouts National Youth Leadership TrainingT

 

 

[BDPT00 41]

NYLT is a fine title to use on a job or college application. For a non-Scouter, though, Wood Badge doesn't mean squat either.

I've seen two interesting exmples given. One is cheering for the "Bears" rather than the "Chicago NFL Team." The other example though is the Big Mac idea. The points are made on opposite sides of the argument, but I like both. I think the issue is name recognition and marketing.

If nobody really cares what the course is called, call it NYLT. If it matters though, I'm in favor of "Cedar Bark - NYLT"

I know we don't get to vote, but there's mine anyway.

BDPT00

[GernBlansten 10]

What is in a name?

I remember when I became an adult leader, I heard the term WoodBadge thrown around at meetings, it didn't shake me to the bone or instill some sense of authority by the speaker. I really didn't care. Beads? Bolos? Weird pink necker. Just looked like silly uniform bling. Not until I started to read and understand the history of WoodBadge that it started to set in that these adults had actually taken advanced, nationally developed leadership training. They had stepped beyond the basic training I had and really invested in the program. Had they called it National Adult Leadership Training, a newbie like me might have instantly bowed to their superiority in all things scouting.

 

I too agree that the local name BigHorn for my son is irrelevant. He did it. Enjoyed it. Will probably staff it next summer. But the name is irrelevant to him. I like the knowledge that the program used the national syllabus, not some home grown one.

[btphelps 10]

According to the NYLT Staff Guide, page Staff-Guide 5:

 

"To avoid confusion among councils, every NYLT program will be called National Youth Leadership Training. Councils may devise ther [sic] own names for NYLT courses, but the name should include the National Youth Leadership Training."

 

Brian Phelps

Assistant Director

White Stag Leadership Development

www.whitestag.org

[fgoodwin 23]

According to this thread, local variations on the NYLT course name are not acceptable in 2009:NYLT Changes in 2009

 

The National NYLT syllabus must be followed and the course will be known as NYLT. Joint names such as Brownsea NYLT can no longer be used to qualify an NYLT course.

 

(emphasis added)

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=192950

[scoutingagain 20]

BW has it correct I think. As usual. The point of having a single, nationally recognized name is so the course is just that, recognized for what it is throughout the country both inside and outside scouting.

 

Do you think the Eagle Scout Rank would have the cache' that it does if some councils awarded Eagle, others Falcon, others Lion or whatever? My son listed National Youth Leadership Training on his college applications. The school he chose to go to specifically complimented him on that training and his Eagle scout in his acceptance letter. If he had listed Beaver training or other name, they would not have known what he was talking about.

 

SA

[John-in-KC 311]

I will bet dollars to donuts my Council will gladly discard that piece of guidance.

 

Brownsea-22 has more tradition behind it than "NYLT"

 

All the more so since NASDAQ recognizes NYLT as Worldquest, nee New York Local Telephone Inc.

 

Buzzword Bingo!

[fgoodwin 23]

John:

 

And BSA means "Business Software Alliance" to many folks.

 

I hear what you're saying, but when I signed on as a trainer, I agreed to teach the BSA (Boy Scouts of America) syllabus as written. I don't put my own spin on it, although I will add my own illustrations of points to be made if the syllabus calls for it, or if someone asks a question that can best be answered that way.

 

I would never tell anyone they are doing something "wrong" -- OTOH, the syllabus seems to speak for itself on this particular point. And since the syllabus DOES address this specific point, one wonders how councils will rationalize their way around it?

 

What other councils and trainers do ultimately is up to them -- I'm just pointing out what the new syllabus supposedly says (I haven't seen the new one myself -- I'm relying on the post in the other thread).

 

YMMV

[John-in-KC 311]

Fred,

 

I know a course director of a National Program. Went to the CD's conference. Made the oath like everyone did.

 

I can point out 20 places in the course where CD decided local circumstances or tradition trumped the oath, and adapted the syllabus.

 

I agree with you on what should looks like. I'm not sure what'll our council will actually implement.

 

Missed you at PTC. Had huge amounts of learning and fun!

[ideadoc 10]

There are a few things in this thread I find curious:

- People make the assumption that because I favor the tradition of local names I also favor not teaching the NYLT syllabus in its totality and in the order it is written. Both of these things are stated as requirements to deliver NYLT and I am not linking having a local name with disregarding the rules.

- There is the argument that having a local name will prevent a job applicant or college applicant from listing a recognizable term like National Youth Leadership Training on an application. I believe that a listing of, for example "Cedar Badge National Youth Leadership Training" would be just as impressive to a potential employer or scholarship committee as just "National Youth Leadership Training" I also believe that either term would require more explanation in an interview anyway.

- That the need for a nationally consistent name requires the use of a generic term like NYLT rather than a national term that also has a little intrigue behind it such as "Wood Badge"

- That most people believe that telling a story, giving boys something to take local pride in, using a name to build a tradition of excellence, and having a unique patch and logo are not useful in the Scouting program.

 

I am convinced that most of us who are commenting are not the real judge of this change. When this change becomes more public (it is obviously not very widely known now, as evidenced by the fact that many people are telling me that the syllabus says it is OK to have local names) the reaction of our youth will speak more loudly than the opinions on this thread. I hope that the decision makers will pay attention to how youth respond to this and be willing to be flexible if in fact it negatively impacts the program.

[FScouter 24]

It would be very interesting to read the study that lays blame for a declining impact of a training course on the name used to refer to it.