NYLT Names

[ideadoc]

Can someone explain the reason to do away with names for NYLT courses? What is the harm caused by having a local course name, as long as it is used in conjunction with "National Youth Leadership Training" or "NYLT?" What would the harm be of having at least a nation-wide name instead of the generic "NYLT?"

 

Having a name gives us the opportunity to create some allure about our course for the youth participants (and the adults as well). Names are important in marketing every product. Businesses spend lots of money developing and testing names for their products because it influences how well the product will sell.

 

How would people react if Wood Badge changed its name to "National Adult Leader Training?" Why do we have local council names? Why not just call everything "Boy Scouts of America?"

 

 

[fgoodwin]

I like the idea of a standard name.

 

As far as I know, Woodbadge is called that (or WB21C) in all councils -- I'm not aware of any local variations on WB, but of course I could be mistaken.

 

I never cared for all the "cutesy" names for Webelos leader outdoor training, and I don't care for all the local variants on NYLT. I say call the course by whatever the syllabus is called -- this way there is no mis-understanding as to course content, objective, etc.

 

Especially if it is a national syllabus, I see no need for a local home-brew name. Call it what the syllabus is called.

[insanescouter]

I would like to see NYLT being able to extend its name... for example we wanted to do that here and the council flat out refuses to let use, so we just do it unofficially. The name the first youth staffed picked 4 courses ago was "Golden Tomahawk" and we are still using that name unofficially. It helps build a certain excitement and drive for the young staff members and helps build a tradition to bring in more participants and staff year after year. I know its just a name, but it does work. At the end of the course the youth staff presents a

"Golden Tomahawk" (made of wood). The next year we re-use the same "golden tomahawk", but after each year something has been added to it by the patrol that got it the year before.

 

I should also state I don't think our NYLT should just be called "Golden Tomahawk" what we do is "NYLT - Golden Tomahawk" that way every one knows what it is.

 

Just my wacky 2 cents....

 

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

 

Helping leaders one resource at a time....

[Tokala]

From the latest NYLT syllabus:

"Most councils have deep-rooted traditions regarding their youth training courses. Many have a special name for their course, and some have a special award or symbol that has been carried on for many years. These traditions may be continued, but the title National Youth Leadership training needs to be added to the traditional name."

 

I don't see where local council names for NYLT/JLT/TLDC (if you want to go back even further) have been eliminated.

[GernBlansten]

Our council calls our NYLT training BigHorn. For years, I didn't connect BigHorn to NYLT. Those in the know, knew what it meant, but for a green ASM, it wasn't apparent. Now I think they advertise it as BigHorn-NYLT and if you go on their website, it says its NYLT all over the place. But for anyone outside our council, saying you went to or staffed BigHorn has no meaning to them.

[fgoodwin]

I forgot to add that my local council name for the course is "Cedar Badge" -- they pitch it as a youth version of WB and make no connection to the NYLT syllabus, although that is what they use.

 

I thought the latest syllabus eliminated the option to give the course a local name, even with NYLT appended? Again, I could be mistaken.

[GernBlansten]

Since I work in aerospace, I get overrun with acronyms in daily life. They grow old and only those in the know actually understand you when you talk in them.

 

If its OK and preferable for councils to relabel their NYLT training to some catchy, locally traditional moniker, why not also allow them to relabel Woodbadge?

 

Perhaps national should go out and hire some marketing firm to relabel NYLT to something catchy that every council can use. Twigbadge? PulpBadge? Maybe PulpNonFiction?

[BDPT00]

It's clear that there's some misunderstanding of what's going on with NYLT, as well as with the original post. The original poster likes local names and traditions, and doesn't like the handle, "NYLT."

Although NYLT states the intent of the syllabus, and it's wise to use it for rsum purposes, I think there's great value in naming a local course with a local name. Kids would have a much greater loyalty to White Stag or Brownsea or Pine Tree or whatever.

Here's the scoop. National is intending to remove all local names, and to call all courses NYLT (to make it look, feel, and sound more like the singular name, Wood Badge). Due to the long tradition, there's a certain romantic or nostalgic quality to "Wood Badge." That same feeling doesn't exist with "NYLT." I'd submit that we find a great name (no idea what it might be though), or we stick with our local names, such as "Silver Acorn - NYLT." This way, we get the "national leadership training" for syllabus and rsum purposes, and the local council (the youth) can build their traditions (hats, neckers, slides, flags, t-shirts, stationary, and patches) around their local name.

Ideadoc, is that what you're getting at? If so, then I agree.

BDPT00

[ideadoc]

BDPT00,

Yes, you hit the nail on the head. I am not proposing a change to the name "Wood Badge," I was just using that as an example of a name that has great tradition, meaning and value far beyond calling the course "National Adult Leader Training," which I feel is what is happening to NYLT.

 

Since the new changes to NYLT have already been discussed elsewhere in this forum, I didn't realize that not all who read this were not aware of the proposed changes - my fault. With this clarification, I still await someone who might know the reason to clue me in on what the problem is with local names, as long as NYLT in some form is used with the local name.

[NJCubScouter]

BDPT00 says:

 

Kids would have a much greater loyalty to White Stag or Brownsea or Pine Tree or whatever.

 

I don't see that with the kids in "my" troop, including my son. The old names, and in most cases the old traditions, really don't have much meaning for them, and I am not sure that is such a terrible thing. The important thing is the content of the course, the practices and values it teaches, how it is delivered, etc. To me, the name is really just window dressing. "National Youth Leadership Training" is simple, it says what it is, and I think it sounds impressive, and my impression is that the kids agree. (By the way, the patch on my old uniform -- the shirt that has not fit me for many, many, many years -- says "Troop Leader Development". Now there is a boring name!)

[Bob White]

The reason is not name recognition but simply clarity of terms. Local names are just that 'local'. They mean nothing to people who live outside the local area. Most scouts and scouters have never heard of White Stag, or Cedar Badge, or Pine Tree. So when they see that to attend NAYLE they need to have taken NYLT and they say "gee I guess I don't qualify because I never went to that." When in fact they may have but under a localized name.

 

The BSA is just trying to clean up communications be calling the same course by the same name nationwide...like with Wood Badge.

 

 

[FScouter]

I also wonder that if the local folks that take a proprietary interest in the name and customize it for their own purposes, will they also extend that customization to the training material by adding/deleting topics to fit their "local needs", likes, and dislikes?

[BDPT00]

I'm finding the comparison to Wood Badge and the word "national" to be interesting. I've never considered Wood Badge to be a national course. Is BALOO a national course, too?

Any council putting on a course will inadvertently find a way to instill local traditions. Some will intentionally change things no matter what it's called.

In my council, I think the boys will be upset (and they have no trouble discerning that our local name is our council's home of NYLT, so that's not an issue here).

Here's what I don't care for ... we're going through this change (the new rules) so that some adults can be recognized. If the kids interpret the changes to be for that purpose, there's no wonder they'll be upset when the name they've become accustomed to and proud to represent is abandoned so that Mr So-n-so can get a bead.

Yes, change happens. I get that. But why the name? We are an organization of traditions (some good ... some not so). I don't see the good yet in calling our course "NYLT." If we change, we change (and I'll do it if we have to), but the price is paid for by the youth who proudly wear their local colors, and the reward goes around an adult's neck.

BDPT00

[AvidSM]

How is Wood Badge not a National course? The Scoutmaster of a Wood Badge course has to sign a statement saying he/she will follow the syllabus EXACTLY and not make any "local" changes.

 

I would assume the Scoutmaster for NYLT is also required to follow the course syllabus. I am sure that there is some leeway in the outline, like playing a team builing game of your own choosing or have each patrol conduct a one-hour conservation project.

 

I think there is no harm in keeping the old traditional name, as long as you add the "-NYLT" as per the syllabus and you don't customize it to the point where it no longer meets the goals of the course.

[Bob White]

Yes the Wood Badge Course is a National Course, as is BALOO, as is New Leader Essentials, as is NYLT, and a host of other BSA courses.

 

What actual price is paid by the youth by standardizing a name????

Does not a rose by any other name smell as sweet?