Non-Advancement Opportunities

[ericjude]

I am the ASM (and Advancement Chair) of a new troop. We have nine (9) first-year scouts, seven (7) of whom earned their Arrow of Light. The guys are very enthusiastic about Scouting and we want to keep them that way.

 

Wanting to keep them excited, we looked at non-advancement opportunities they can participate in. There are alot more oppotunities available now than when I was a youth back in the 1980's. So many in fact, that we could do one a month for the next two years! They are currently working on their hunter safety certification. NCCS has a rosary program, as well as an International Catholic Awareness program. There are quite a few historic trails in the area. All of these programs have a either a patch or medal (or both) associated with it.

 

We want them to have fun, but we don't want them to think everything they do will earn them a patch or medal. The adult leadership have discussed things and decided that one "extra" program every couple months would be a good amount. We aren't limiting the number of programs they can participate in, we're simply limiting ourselves in what we present to them. If a scout comes to us expressing an interest in something, we don't tell him no.

 

My question to the group is this: How many non-advancement activities do you typically make available to the youth in your units? Does one every two months sound like a good average?

[ScoutNut]

It's up to the boys, thru the Patrol Leader's Council, to decide what they want to do.

 

Do you have any older scouts at all, or are you 9 scouts total?

 

It is very easy for the boys to include advancement activities in most of what the Troop does. Camping, cooking, tent set-up, camping gear, rope making/tying, hiking, first aid, physical fitness, orienteering, Fireman Chit, service projects, local plants, local animals, etc.

 

The PLC, along with advise from the SM, should plan out the next few months worth of meetings/activities. They should include things that the new boys need to advance as well as fun things that the boys want to do.

 

It is not up to you as Advancement Chair or ASM, to decide what the boys will be doing.

 

 

 

 

[scoutingagain]

 

Nearly all our activities are non-advancement opportunities. Very few of our outings or activities are planned around a specific advancement requirement. However, many of the activities that the unit does, qualify for meeting an advancement requirement, like hiking or biking, camping, cooking, visiting a historic site etc. Or the preparation for those activities like planning a hike, a menu etc.

 

SA

 

 

[Eamonn]

ScoutNut has hit the nail on the head when he states:"It's up to the boys, thru the Patrol Leader's Council, to decide what they want to do. "

As adults we might want to look at the methods of Scouting and see how we are doing?

Advancement is only one method.

I really like the idea of Scouts doing things because it's fun and learning as they do it.

Of course this doesn't work all the time and can be really hard at times, but learning how to tie a knot before you go climbing or sailing beats spending hours in the Scout hut with old frayed ropes.

Having the younger Scouts try their hand at reading the map on a hike, brings map reading to life.

Right now I'm having a slight problem with some of the Scouts in the Ship. They come from units where if you do something once it gets signed off and there are some requirements that only require that you do something. However I read some of the requirements as know how to ...

We seem to have a problem defining the word know.

All of our Scouts have completed the United States Power Squadron Boating Course. Part of the course covered charting and navigation. They all passed the course. But they have not gone out and charted a course. I'm happy to leave this where we are at??

Later in the spring they will get to go out and will be given the opportunity to put the skills they have learned to use. If they need help, it will be on hand.

They don't know that they are working on advancement. If I'm doing my job right they will be having fun facing a new challenge, participating in a new adventure and the advancement just happens. If it becomes apparent that they really don't know what the heck they are doing going over it with them and helping them get it right, so that they do know it is far more important than just doing it and having it signed off.

If you focus on the big picture, not just parts of it I think you will find that everything starts to fall into place.

Scouts join Scouts for fun and adventure, if we can find a stealth method of teaching them the skills that they need to advance and not allow advancement be the master, Scouting is a lot more fun and with more skills the adventures can get bigger and better.

Eamonn.

 

[ericjude]

Thank you for the responses.

 

ScoutNut: We've got nine total, all of them first year scouts.

 

I may not have explained the situation clearly. We as the adult leadership are not limiting what they can work on. We're limiting ourselves at the opportunities we present to them. Like I said, we've found enough for one a month for the next two years., all of which are age appropriate. We feel that if we present them all, the next year may be spent working on the immediate recognition of the patch or medal. We don't want to distract from learning the basic scouting skills by them working on non-related awards.

[fgoodwin]

ericjude: welcome to the Forums.

 

Have your ASMs and SM been trained under the new curriculum? Specifically, have they taken "Fast Start"?

 

If not, you might want to suggest to them that they all go through it, possibly even do it together.

 

I know many Troops (my son's included) have ASMs or other adults "presenting" at the Troop Meeting every week. Unless the PLC specifically requests such a presentation, that's not the best example of how "boy-led" is supposed to work.

[ScoutNut]

Right now your concentration should not be on finding non-advancement opportunities for your boys to earn patches. Your Troop adult leadership should be working on forming a Boy-Led Troop. That will be hard with no experienced boys or leaders, but it can be done.

 

You all need to get out of the Cub mind-set and into Boy Scouts. Get trained & then train the boys. You should not be "restricting" what you offer the boys. The PLC should be setting their program based on what they need to get accomplished & what they want to do. The SM should be helping them with that.

 

"Extra" programs are nice, & fun is a must, but as Eamonn said, they can be (& should be) learning without even knowing it WHILE they are having fun. The historic trails gives the boys a great opportunity to learn outdoor skills. The boys should be planning fun camping trips for every month (or at least every other month) to hone their cooking & camping skills & to work on their advancement. They can learn about the knots needed to go climbing & then go wall climbing at your local YMCA or athletic club.

 

While the International Awareness & the Rosary Patch series are good programs, & some the boys might be interested in, why not have a parent take your Archdiocese training & offer the boys the opportunity to work on their Ad Altare Dei religious emblem. This should be worked on outside of regular Troop meetings.

 

You said the boys are working on their "hunter safety certification". What exactly is that? According to the "Guide to Safe Scouting", hunting is not an authorized Boy Scout activity.

 

 

[scoutingagain]

Welcome Eric,

 

In a new unit, with all young scouts and adult leaders new to Boy Scouts I can see where it would be a real challenge for the adults. The concept of boy led is a tough nut to crack under most circumstances for new adult leaders. I could see where it might be even tougher to get a handle on it in a new unit with made up of first year scouts. I speak from experience. My son crossed over 5 years ago and I can admit I'm finally getting to the point where I think I can successfully implement the boy led concept, not just say what it is. Frankly the boys were ready before I was. I thought I understood what boy led was but time, training, experience, this forum and observation of other units has kept me learning.

 

In addition to training I would suggest you visit some other veteran troops in the area. Don't go to just any unit. Ask your unit commissioner if he/she knows of a unit that really has this boy led thing done well and see how they operate.

 

You've recieved a lot of unsolicited advice from me and others. Please do not take offense. Your dedication and commitment to the boys is admirable and I wish you the best of luck. Watching those boys grow into young men will be one of the most rewarding things you will do. I would not limit their choices, but guide them in their decision making.

 

Good luck,

 

SA

[ericjude]

ScoutNut: We're in Mississippi and hunting is a big part of life down here. Additionally, five (5) of the nine (9) parents belong to hunting clubs or share a lease on hunting lands. I agree that hunting is not part of Scouting; and hunting will never be a troop activity. When they crossed over from Webelos, the first thing they asked the SM to do was arrange a hunter safety course so they could get a hunting license and go out with their fathers. The SM got certified as an instructor and began teaching the course to the guys. Please know, all of this happened before I came on as an ASM.

 

In regards to the Ad Altare Dei, I'm getting trained as a counselor for all of the Catholic religious emblems. I earned both the AAD and the Pius XII as a youth and also have a degree in Religion, so I was approached by the diocesan committee chair to be the counselor for this area. Unfortunately, the guys in my troop aren't old enough for the AAD yet.

 

SA: I appreciate all of the advice! I've been in scouting for nearly 20 years (Eagle Scout '86; 4 years summer camp staff; Brotherhood member of the OA; 3.5 years as SM in another troop) and am very familiar with the ideals of scouting and the boy-run program. I am also very familiar with units that have very little parent support and often have to limit things because there aren't enough adults involved.

 

The other adults in the troop are new to Boy Scouting, but they are very active. One of my greatest struggles as a new leader was balancing the paperwork with the activities. The paperwork can sometimes overwhelm and discourage adults new to the program. Because of my experience, when I came into the troop I volunteered to concentrate on the paperwork side of the troop (charters, advancement, permits, etc). As the other leaders get trained, they will see how everything fits together and (hopefully) stick around as their sons move through the program.

 

I've spoken with leaders in other units in the district and they have all had great comments and advice. I haven't had a chance to attend a roundtable yet, but plan on making as many as I can.

 

My reason for asking the initial question was to see how other units across the nation handled non-advancement programs.

 

Thanks again for all the feedback!

[fgoodwin]

ericjude, forgive me, I didn't really answer your question before I criticized what you're Troop is doing.

 

In my son's Troop, non-advancement opportunities are generally made in the form of announcements by whichever adult happens to know about them (usually the SM).

 

This really isn't the most efficient way to do it and boys who miss the Troop Meeting don't get the benefit of the announcement. I'm going to suggest at the next Troop Committee Meeting that the SM suggest to the PLC that the Troop Scribe (or however the PLC decides is best) issue a monthly newsletter with a calendar of upcoming campouts and other events & award opportunities of interest to the Troop.

 

In this way, time for announcements can be minimized and a written record of events and non-advancement opportunities can be provided to everyone, including those boys & parents who miss the meeting.

 

Our own Troop has many such awards at each Court of Honor; many times, the boy himself identifies the award and completes the requirements to earn it. Some examples are Leave No Trace, World Conservation, religious awards, etc. For an illustrative list of non-rank awards, see:

 

http://www.usscouts.org/advancementTOC.asp#other

 

The list is not exhaustive; many such awards exist, some may be Council-specific or event / location specific. A little research should turn up many such opportunities.

 

But rather than simply taking Troop Meeting time to present these (time which could better be spent on program and patrol activities), I suggest that once a promising opportunity is identified, share it with the SM who in turn can mention to the PLC. Then the PLC can decide if they want to spend Troop Meeting time on a presentation (by an adult but preferably by another boy) to the rest of the boys.

 

It is the PLC's job to plan and execute the Troop Meeting; let them do their job.

 

Justa suggestion . . .

[Eagle76]

First, to give my opinion on the original question, a "non-advancement" activity every two months is probably not unreasonable. I may lean more toward one every three months, and would say one a month is too much.

 

My reasoning is, in general, a troop should have a campout every month and one additional activity. This keeps the number of events for the boys to plan to a manageable level. Some of these activities should be opportunities to meet advancement requirements: 2nd class 5 mile compass hikes, nature hikes for plant identification, 1st class orienteering hike, service projects, etc. With only one non-camping activity a month, they shouldn't all be what I call "playtime activities".

 

Now, as others say, the boys should decide things through the PLC. However, in ericjude's case, with all new boys the troop can't be run the same way as a mature troop with experienced older Scouts. The ultimate goal, which must never be forgotten, will be to become a boy led troop as described in the literature. But you can't get there all at once. At this initial stage the adults will need to have more input into planning, making suggestions and guiding the Scouts. Boy input may consist of them choosing from suggestions offered by the SM. It is the responsibility of the adults to teach the Scouts what a Scouting program is and what it looks like, because the boys don't know. If the boys are given a free hand to plan their program without guidance, it will be nothing but going to the movies, visiting video arcades, going skateboarding, etc.

 

Now, my warning about "playtime activities". They are very popular in my troop. They are better attended by far than campouts, hikes, and "Scouting activities." Saturday night bowling in November, a bike ride in December, and the big day in January where they go rock climbing during the day and play broomball at an ice rink at night. And why shouldn't they be popular? The adult committee puts them on the calendar because their boys enjoy them, the adults do all the planning, organizing, and running, and all the boys need to do is show up and have fun. What's not to like?

 

Now before you all protest, remember this was a warning. I am well aware of all the things wrong in the previous paragraph, and I am working to change them. Having said that, I am not saying playtime activites should be eliminated, but that they should be limited, as ericjude initially suggested, and that the boys should play a role in planning and running them as much as they are able, same as for the "Scouting activities".

[Eagle76]

In re-reading the thread it seems I may have misinterpreted the original meaning of "non-advancement" activities as originally posed, and they are not the "playtime activities" as I jumped to conclude. I guess I have been guilty of skewing things based on my own experiences/perspective. My apologies.

 

Regardless, I think limiting them to no more often than every two months to allow for activities which provide advancement opportunites still holds.(This message has been edited by Eagle76)

[OldGreyEagle]

You know, A Venture Crew can go hunting

[Lisabob]

My son's troop does very few "non-advancement" activities, in that most troop campouts and skill segments of troop meetings have a fairly explicit focus on the elements that scouts need to learn through first class. Since we camp every month, have meetings every week, and do at least one service project each month too, that doesn't leave a lot of time for additional, troop-wide activities.

 

But, the patrols are increasingly seeking out these activities on their own, which I guess is a good thing. One patrol recently set up an ice-fishing day, another did some hiking, and a third is considering going on a field trip to an aviation museum together. In all cases, these are things that boys in the patrols found out about (sometimes through mom & dad, sometimes not) and decided they wanted to do on their own so they arranged it. They're still fairly uncommon though, certainly not every month.

 

With just 9 boys you might be able to do some of these kinds of "extras" with the whole group but you might also encourage the patrols (if you have more than one?) to take advantage of occasional opportunities on their own.

 

One advantage to doing activities like this is that it really improves the patrol/troop spirit and bonding. Of course so can campouts, but those are often more challenging (physically and mentally) and sometimes the boys really just want to have fun together doing something other than camping.

 

Lisa'bob

[MaScout]

Creating a Hunting MB has been looked at closely by National...don't know if it made it through or not.