What do unit leaders need and want from their district leadership (commissioners & district committees (trng, activities, membership...)

[Ojoman 157]

My post on expectations of DE's seemed to draw a lot of interesting responses but program delivery and support is just as much a responsibility of the volunteers at the district level as they are of the DE. I would like to hear from volunteers at all levels as to how effective the district volunteers are and what needs to be done to make it even better. Most districts do suffer from a lack of manpower so that might be addressed too. Thanks

[DuctTape 1231]

I am not sure they can do much more for the local units. IMO the entire BSA structure predicated on the authority of the IH of the CO is the major obstacle for any real reform. Problematic units do not utilize district/council trainings, trainers, etc... They do not see themselves as having a problem even though they are not delivering the BSA program. The district and council have no authority to step in and make real changes when a unit is operating in a way contradictory to the BSA program (eg. adult led & run eagle mills). 

Perhaps one place where the council & district CAN exercise some authority is true vetting and training of mB counselors. Also in ensuring district & council camps are run in a way to maximize the BSA program with fidelity  and not enable the problematic units.

 

[Ojoman 157]

2 hours ago, DuctTape said:

I am not sure they can do much more for the local units. IMO the entire BSA structure predicated on the authority of the IH of the CO is the major obstacle for any real reform.

Today, most IH and Co are less than fully functioning and that can be a problem. However, a good unit commissioner that works with them and the unit can change that. Also the annual IH visit that the DE is 'supposed' to do can bring a focus on the program to the IH. Sadly, I think most unit level volunteers think the only training they need is the on line training and BAlOO or Outdoor for troop leaders. Councils/District training committees should be offering everything from den chief training to PowWow and Univ of Scouting and pushing for volunteers to attend. Help from the membership committee and even finance in how to better run a product sale or other means of funding unit program... I'll stop here and look for more comments. 

[DuctTape 1231]

6 hours ago, Ojoman said:

Today, most IH and Co are less than fully functioning and that can be a problem. However, a good unit commissioner that works with them and the unit can change that. Also the annual IH visit that the DE is 'supposed' to do can bring a focus on the program to the IH. Sadly, I think most unit level volunteers think the only training they need is the on line training and BAlOO or Outdoor for troop leaders. Councils/District training committees should be offering everything from den chief training to PowWow and Univ of Scouting and pushing for volunteers to attend. Help from the membership committee and even finance in how to better run a product sale or other means of funding unit program... I'll stop here and look for more comments. 

I do not disagree, at least not much.

 

A good commissioner can only do so much. If the unit wants to do a non-bsa program denying the scouts a real scouting opportunity they can and do. You hinted at this by admitting the leaders (sic) only do the basic required trainings. One might argue that if more is necessary, then more should be required. The major issue is even WITH the training, they ignore what they are supposed to do. Often with phrases, "this is how our troop operates", even when it contradicts the training and literature.

[Ojoman 157]

18 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

"this is how our troop operates",

Troops are probably more apt to 'create' their own culture and depart from BSA practices. Some troop leaders (like some sports coaches) are controlling or mired in out of date practices. Sadly, in many cases no one will challenge them and their programs tend to be weak and not hold membership. Of course there is the other end where a leader does a great job with his/her junior leaders and oversees a solid, well functioning program with great retention and advancement. 

[SiouxRanger 491]

On 12/6/2023 at 11:11 PM, Ojoman said:

My post on expectations of DE's seemed to draw a lot of interesting responses but program delivery and support is just as much a responsibility of the volunteers at the district level as they are of the DE. I would like to hear from volunteers at all levels as to how effective the district volunteers are and what needs to be done to make it even better. Most districts do suffer from a lack of manpower so that might be addressed too. Thanks

In 24 years as a troop leader, Committee Chairman, Treasurer, Eagle Scout Coach, having attended all but perhaps 6 troop meetings in that time, (and all but 6 campouts) I've seen a DE appear at our troop meeting maybe 3 times. Bearing nothing but a smile and kind words. Contributing nothing to troop improvement.

I have never looked to a DE to provide any help to our Troop.  They have nothing to offer. The Council office has nothing to offer either other than to take our money.

Unit Commissioners, well, they are as rare in their appearances. They have never offered nor contributed anything to our Troop.

It is no protection to the failure of council, district executives, National, to throw-off the duties onto district volunteers. Shame.

If there is a failure of National, Council, District, all lead by "commissioned professionals" it is to pass blame to unpaid volunteers.

My training as a soccer dad:  $0, and 0.00 hours.  My training as a basketball dad:  $0 and 0.00 hours.

 

[SiouxRanger 491]

12 hours ago, Ojoman said:

Troops are probably more apt to 'create' their own culture and depart from BSA practices. Some troop leaders (like some sports coaches) are controlling or mired in out of date practices.

Do you have specifics for this? I'd really like to know what you think.

Specifically, regarding:

"departure from BSA practices"

and

"controlling of mired in out of date practices."

So vague I cannot determine what you are referring to.

Thanks.

[Cburkhardt 382]

A good District Committee provides a solid interface between Scouting and the local community.  Members can be critical in the placement of units with new COs and the successful formation of sustainable units.  A good District Committee assures there is a competent commissioner staff to maintain good unit practices and intervene when there are difficulties.  A good District Committee helps raise funds from the local business community for the Council.  Finally, a good District Committee organizes and operates supportive services like camporees and training conferences.   

Beginning with a general unwinding of strong District Committees in the 80's, many of these responsibilities began to fall on the shoulders of professionals, who reluctantly began taking on what eventually became an excessive burden.  This gave the impression that the professionals were "taking over" the program.  The actual circumstance was that they were being forced to substitute for the declining tradition of community leaders and former unit scouters becoming mentors and Scouting promoters on district committees.  It did not work well.  The trend resulted in the DEs becoming over-worked and always-blamed for nearly everything. 

If we could restore competent and positive District Committees everywhere, units would be benefitted greatly.  I have to say that the District Committee and Commissioner Staff in our District (which happens to comprise the geography of the District of Columbia) is quite good.  Its presence and effectiveness is a principal reason why our local Scouting did not decline as much during COVID/bankruptcy and has recovered nicely.   

[Ojoman 157]

40 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

the District Committee and Commissioner Staff in our District (which happens to comprise the geography of the District of Columbia) is quite good. 

I get a lot of 'stuff' from National Capital Area council and I am always impressed... lots of training opps and top unit news. I find that few CO's ever attend District Committee Meetings even though they are an automatic part. Our district committee is comprised of 12-14 individuals that really do not have their own committees. We have put the membership duties on the commissioner staff which is comprised of 4 people serving 37 units that serve over 50 elementary and middle schools and that's not counting private/parochial schools. Your first paragraph summed it all up... If every district was properly staffed and did it's job well Scouting would be far more healthy than it is. God Bless all those volunteers that do try to do their district jobs well... often it can be a frustrating experience which is all the more sad. 

 

[Ojoman 157]

4 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

I have never looked to a DE to provide any help to our Troop.  They have nothing to offer. The Council office has nothing to offer either other than to take our money.

It pains me to read your response. As a unit serving professional for 30 years I always tried to have a good relationship with my unit people and many of them came on board both district and council committees and for events including giving up a lot of their time to support summer programs like cub and webelo resident weekend camps. Both DE's and District/council volunteers need to cultivate solid relationships with unit volunteers as that is where the bulk of district volunteers come from. Let your words be a cautionary tale to all district level professionals and volunteers that they may be aware and avoid such a poor performance and leaving a bad taste in unit level volunteers mouths. 

[Ojoman 157]

4 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

Do you have specifics for this? I'd really like to know what you think.

Specifically, regarding:

"departure from BSA practices"

and

"controlling of mired in out of date practices."

So vague I cannot determine what you are referring to.

Thanks.

Some troops get known as 'merit badge or eagle mills' driven by the SM or a small group of adults... Not that earning EAgle is bad but the direction and purpose of the program is overall character, citizenship and personal fitness. Some Troops shut down for the summer with the possible exception of summer camp because 'that's how we have always done it. Some troops shun district or council involvement because of a leaders attitude, some troops sit on their duff and expect a crop of AOL's each year without lifting a finger to assist the Pack. Some leaders never get 'updated' at a u of sctg and only update that training that is required to remain a volunteer. Some leaders never encourage their youth members to bring a buddy to an event to 'try scouting out'. and do little or no recruitment promotion with their troop. Some troop leaders never utilize their youth leaders in planning program and often are doing the SPL role limiting the leadership growth and potential of the youth SPL. Some troop leaders don't invite or recruit other adults/parents to become leaders because they don't want new blood or new ideas to interfere with how things have always been done. I suppose I could go on but that is a start... 

[Jameson76 1485]

4 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

In 24 years as a troop leader, Committee Chairman, Treasurer, Eagle Scout Coach, having attended all but perhaps 6 troop meetings in that time, (and all but 6 campouts) I've seen a DE appear at our troop meeting maybe 3 times. Bearing nothing but a smile and kind words. Contributing nothing to troop improvement.

I have only seen the DE wander by a meeting maybe once, and they were wanting to talk about FOS.  The DE came out to see our Troop run camp summer 2020 during Covid, we sort of felt they were looking for things we may be doing wrong.  One year they stopped by our campsite at camp (once in my 15 years) to say I guess hello.

Bottom line, the professional staff has done zero to build bridges with our unit, the largest in the district

4 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

I have never looked to a DE to provide any help to our Troop.  They have nothing to offer. The Council office has nothing to offer either other than to take our money.

Would agree.  We did have some questions on the new recharter process as the information had not been sent to units and details we were getting from other councils was somewhat conflicting.  Received the most arrogant and condescending e-mail response we had ever seen that alluded to sent information.  Looped in the Field Director and guess what, not communications was ever sent.  We advised the FD and SE and advised we did not want to have any further communications with the DE

4 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

Unit Commissioners, well, they are as rare in their appearances. They have never offered nor contributed anything to our Troop.

So a while back we had a request from the District Chairman and District Commissioner that one of our adult leader register as the Unit Commissioner for our unit, that way the position would be filled.  We advised that seemed like pencil whipping a position and what value would one of our leaders bring to our unit as a commissioner as they were already actively involved with our unit.  They did not get back with us.