Uniform alternatives for religious accommodation

[SunnyD 11]

I'm helping out a new pack and a couple of families have joined where the mothers wear traditional Muslim attire with headcoverings and floor length dresses.  One of them has expressed interest in becoming a leader but was asking some questions about uniforms and clearly would refuse if required to wear standard-issue.  First off, while I'm pretty traditional and wear the uniform almost every day myself, I'm not going to turn her down over the uniform, we'll gladly accept her help and figure something out without making it an issue.  A Scout is reverent and respects the beliefs of others.  However, I think she actually might be interested in uniforming if there's a way to do it.  I don't see any official offerings, do people make quasi-uniform-ish DIY type garb to try to be consistent with their beliefs while attempting to adhere to the spirit of the uniform?  Or is there some source out there that I haven't found?  I'm sure a headcovering can be improvised without too much trouble, but pants and a shirt are not going to fly and something more like a long dress or robes would be necessary, maybe with a sash for insignia?  Thanks in advance, I appreciate any experience anyone has with this, surely there must be precedent.

 

[seattlecyclone 55]

I'm far from an expert on this, but I know different Muslim women have different standards they hold themselves to. For example a recent coworker of mine would show up to the office in a sweatshirt and pants all the time but she would always keep the traditional head scarf on. It's possible that the new mothers in your pack would find the long-sleeved version of the uniform shirt to meet their modesty standards, when paired with their typical head covering and a long skirt. The only way to find out is to ask them. Thanks for being kind and trying to work with them as they do their best.

[SunnyD 11]

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Thanks, yes definitely want to talk to her more about it now that I've had some time to contemplate it, and in the meantime wanted to try to inform myself to be able to provide some alternatives since she won't really be familiar with what options are out there either.  Like you say there are variations in standards and I also am not too knowledgeable about the nuances.  The long-sleeve uniform shirt and a long skirt may actually work, that's a good suggestion that I can offer her to see if it would be acceptable.  I appreciate your help!

[scoutldr 732]

My advice is to invite her to dress however she feels comfortable.  If she feels comfortable adding Scouting elements to her attire, that's fine.  I don't think it's something you need to be involved in, unless she has questions.  I'm sure BSA would have no problem with whatever she decides.  Could be an excellent opportunity to teach Scouts (and Scouters) about different cultures and religions. As @SunnyD says, there are many different interpretations among Muslims about what is acceptable.  My wife was recently in the hospital and a nursing student and her instructor came in to start an IV.  The instructor was Muslim and wore the traditional Hijab (head covering), but otherwise wore hospital scrubs and name badge/lanyard.  

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

First principle:  Please encourage her to attend and participate, dressing according to the dictates of her faith and conscience.  Wherever BSA uniforms are inadequate to meet these, she has the liberty to dress as she wishes without regard to any BSA uniform "standards."

Ask if the women's long sleeved shirt is acceptable.  Here is a link:

https://www.scoutshop.org/scouts-bsa-long-sleeve-uniform-shirt-khaki-adult-s-4xl-cotton-polyester-spandex-blend-long-sleeve-uniform-shirt-with-bsa-logo-and-u-s-flag.html

I am assuming (based on my limited knowledge of a wide range of dress codes in various countries which are predominantly Muslim) that pants are not acceptable, and I'm certain the BSA Skort is out...

So, be the avant garde!  Craft a skirt or dress of BSA green material that might be suitable, floor length presumably.  I'm happy to advocate with BSA National uniforming to revise uniform guidelines and products to accommodate religious attire.

Here is an example of the women's uniform from Indonesia:

 

https://pngtree.com/freepng/illustration-of-indonesian-scout-members_6537910.html

Although they received some negative press for the long skirts:

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2020/02/25/long-skirts-for-girl-scouts-criticized-following-river-trekking-tragedy.html

If you need, we can get the color codes for BSA garb.

Or, just get a commercially made product that is close enough...

She can even get custom made (including custom length) on Etsy for a reasonable price:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1468778709/custom-size-cotton-linen-wrap-skirt-wrap

Happy Scouting!

[AwakeEnergyScouter 247]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

If you need, we can get the color codes for BSA garb.

I bet they could order an abaya, niqab, chador, or even burqa in that color.

But safety is a thing also - since floor-length dresses obviously have caused literally death before at scouting events, there's a limit to how accommodating we can be. Checking on what guidelines predominantly Muslim countries use is a great idea - including where they draw that safety line. If pants are absolutely out, then there's a limit to what kinds of events they could participate in safely.

[mrjohns2 582]

17 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

since floor-length dresses obviously have caused literally death before at scouting events

They have? 

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

21 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

They have? 

From the article, but I do not agree... the article says the skirts caused them to be swept away by flood waters.

Flood waters don't care what you are wearing... you will be swept away in the nude, just as easily.

There's a reason you have to remove clothing for Lifesaving MB...

[AwakeEnergyScouter 247]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

From the article, but I do not agree... the article says the skirts caused them to be swept away by flood waters.

Flood waters don't care what you are wearing... you will be swept away in the nude, just as easily.

From the article:

"The 10 fatalities were all female students who were wearing long skirts that made them especially vulnerable to being dragged away by the strong currents, according to Yogyakarta National Search and Rescue Agency (Basarnas) head L. Wahyu Efendi. Wearing long skirts for outdoor scout activities has drawn offline and online flak.  Nita Azhar, a fashion designer who said that she helped design Indonesia’s national scout uniform in 2012, said that she was surprised to hear that the Turi 1 junior high students had been wearing long skirts.  “It is regrettable because […] I also made a special uniform for field activities such as river trekking that consists of long trousers, including for middle school students and girl scouts,” Nita said in a statement seen by The Jakarta Post."

I interpret this to mean that the head of the search and rescue agency attributed the deaths to the long skirts, and that this risk has been previously clearly identified and mitigated with a Islamic field activity uniform that the dead scouts weren't using when they were swept away.

Being swept away will happen in anything, yes. But whether you survive being swept away could certainly depend on whether you have a skirt on in my personal swimming experience, fitting what the head of search and rescue said. We had to practice lifesaving with clothes on, and even jeans feel crazy heavy on your legs when wet, and they always follow the movement of your legs in a way that a skirt does not.