God and Church

[packsaddle 753]

I encourage them as individuals to earn the award through their own churches. The scoutmaster once had a plan to put the whole troop through the program in his church (Methodist, his son was the only one from his church). I mentioned the potential problems with the Buddhist, Jewish, Islamic, Catholic, and Hindu boys. He rethought the idea. The boys are encouraged to seek the award individually.

[fgoodwin 23]

[FOG]

No matter which way you're trying to twist the rules, the program works better if implemented as designed and each Scout works on the religious emblem for his faith.

[/FOG]

 

Isn't that what NWS was saying?

 

[NWS]

It is designed for youth to do in the own home congregation and many of the activities pertain to the their denomination.

 

Roman Catholic youth would get more out of their own program.

[/NWS]

 

So FOG, it seems to me that NWS wasn't "twisting" anything.

 

[John-in-KC 311]

[ FOG ]

Also, doesn't it say in the God and Country book that the Scout's pastor needs to sign off?

[ /FOG ]

 

No, it doesn't. Page 22 of the 2001 printing of God and Church(which is what I have at hand tonight), in the box at the top left, says A pastor, not THE pastor.

 

Remember, this is a tool for churched and unchurched alike. For unchurched boys, a pastor has to step up to the plate. That's part of the role of the Counselor ... having a pastor who can sit down with an unchurched boy or girl. In the case of a churched young man/woman, BFO, the childs' pastor is first best source. POF, new God and Church requires interaction between Counselors, children, and Pastors.

 

[ NWScouter ]

Also PARY is a publisher of the materials, the requirements are approved by the various denominational committees on Scouting.

[ /NWScouter ]

 

WRONG!!! Ask Debbie Hazelwood of PRAY who wrote the curricula. I know the answer already, I had a chance to visit with her and Mark during Relationships Week at PTC last year...

 

***PAID POLITICAL ADVERTISEMENT: It's MORE THAN WORTH THE MONEY to attend Philmont Training Center for the Scouting in the Church's Ministry conference!!! Mark and Debbie Hazelwood are genuinely enthused about what PRAY does, and spend substantial time working RED team and the various curricula, both the ones they write and publish, and the ones they print/manage on behalf of other agencies.***

 

... Debbie IS THE WRITER for God and Me, God and Family, and God and Church. Will she update God and Life next? Don't know, have not asked. PRAY sends out the draft curricula NOT TO THE SCOUTING denominational committees, BUT TO THE denominations various doctrinal agencies and youth boards.

 

REMEMBER, PRAY supports BSA, GSUSA, Camp Fire, and IIRC 4-H. They work closely with but are independent of...

 

Tomorrow (it's 10PM here) is Maundy Thursday. Remember our Lord as He institutes the new Covenant and goes inexorably to the Cross.

 

John(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"Isn't that what NWS was saying?"

 

Are you taking Bob White lessons about quotes out of context?

 

 

[NWScouter 9]

John ,what I was trying to say while PRAY publishes and yes does write and proposes the requirements, the individual denominations accept the requirements by their committees on Scouting. I think we are saying the same thing.

[John-in-KC 311]

Curt,

 

Yes, we are ... but it was a good chance to get paid political advertising in for both PRAY and the Scouting in the Churchs' Ministry workshop.

 

Please forgive my strident tone. I can get just a tad passionate on this. Unfortunately, this board only lets us edit our last post, so it seems. Sorry, I'd edit back some of the stridency if I could.

 

Regarding your private message, "And also with you."

 

John(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[fgoodwin 23]

John in KC said:

 

It's MORE THAN WORTH THE MONEY to attend Philmont Training Center for the Scouting in the Church's Ministry conference!!!

 

 

Allow me to second John's endorsement of the PTC Course, "Scouting in the Church's Ministry". I attended last summer and learned a lot. For those who want to see Scouting embraced by more churches, and who want to ensure the faith component of Scouting isn't forgotten, I cannot recommend it highly enough.

 

Fred Goodwin, PCOS

Alamo Area Council

[eagle54 10]

Let me repeat some of what has been said -

 

Say the Southern Baptist Convention has Southern Baptists in Scouting which sets (with the help of Pray) God and Church which a Boy Scout would be eligible to qualify for the award by working with the leaders of his local congregation.l

 

Is U is the Unitarians Etc. As I understand it these are the original inclusive group I could believe in Jesus and another person could not believe in Jesus and we all could be a member of the group.

 

I could see it would be hard for this group to adopt certain standards of belief.

 

Scouting is where we know that the "Eagle" can be watered down if the standards are lowered thru now challenging the boy to meet the requirement in full.

[John-in-KC 311]

Eagle 54...

 

Understand something, very clearly, please.

 

The religious awards programs (all of them) are INDEPENDENT OF the Boy Scouts of America:

- PRAY (Programs of Religious Activities for Youth) is just one of them. It happens to be the one I'm most familiar with, thanks to being a counselor in its program, and having attended the "Scouting and the Churchs' Ministry" workshop at PTC, learning directly from Mark and Debra Hazelwood.

- PRAY supports BSA, GSUSA and Camp Fire religious awards programs (among other youth-serving organizations).

 

- PRAY (Debra Hazelwood) happens to write the Protestant Christian "God and Country" series.

-- Each Protestant denomination choosing to accept PRAY's curricula does it through their youth services and/or church doctrine offices.

 

- PRAY manages several other programs (print/distribute curricula, stock for resale medals, patches, etc)

 

- Other churches and agencies maintain their own programs. A sampling includes:

Armenian Apostolic Church of America (Western Prelacy)

Armenian Church of America (Eastern Diocese)

Baha'i

LDS

Salvation Army

and yes, Unitarian Universalists, to wit:

http://www.uua.org/re/scouts.html

 

Religious education is a matter of faith. In the PRAY curriculum series, the parents and the counselor are urged to visit with the youths' Pastor. Purpose of this is to ensure the youth receive education within the limits of their doctrinal set.

 

I HAVE had Pastors give clearance for youth I counseled to go "outside the tradition." At least one of these youth was already contemplating the Holy Office as his vocation. That particular young man had already earned his age-appropriate religious award in his faith.

 

 

I'm going to point you to two sites.

 

BSA resource site: http://www.scouting.org/awards/religious/awards/index.html

 

PRAY's resource site:

http://www.praypub.org/recognitions/selectfaith.asp(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[NWScouter 9]

I just happened to be looking at the Bah web site (http://www.education.usbnc.org/child_spir_ed/scoutin.htm) for their Unity of Mankind award for scouts and found this comment:

 

The program is available both for scouts who are members of the Bah Faith and for those interested in learning more about the Bah Faith and its teachings of unity.

 

[packsaddle 753]

NWScouter, I am not familiar with the requirements for the Bah award but I very much enjoy my Bah friends' discussions of religious ideas. Not many people know about Bah but I think many people would enjoy that faith.