Not an Eagle

[SSScout 1617]

Bingo:   Welcome to the wonderful world of angst. And the forums......

 

G2A is fairly clear.  The Scout Handbook is fairly clear. The Eagle Project Workbook is VERY clear.  The folks on this Scouterdotcom have a good grasp of the Scout ideal and reality.

 

My final advice:   Talk to the boy.  Talk to the Scout.  Do not talk to the parent(s) unless they ask specific questions, and then speak to the parents AND the Scout. NEVER leave him out of the conversation, even when the parents barge into the conversation.   It is his award to pursue.  They are his parents to live with and learn from, whatever example they give.  And it sounds like the Scout is doing a good job of following the parent(s)' example.   

 

Checklist all the requirements, check the time frame, make sure the Scout understands everything and then step back and  help when asked. 

 

Buen camino!

[MattR 2667]

  but I am a sixty year old nut that likes to have fun! In 15 years this is only the second time I thought a Scout did not diverse to become an Eagle. I know it looks good on a resume, but it needs to mean something.

 

You've only run into this problem twice in 15 years? That's pretty good. I seem to run into this more often. It sucks and it ruins all the fun. But someone has to set a standard and that's why you're miserable over this.

 

Since you're not the SM there's only so much you can do. If you were the SM then this is what I'd tell you. You can't say after the fact that this is what has to happen. It has to be said before. If nobody has told this scout up to this point that his participation is not enough then that's the adults' problem. In fairness to the scout, he doesn't know what the requirements are. What the handbook says and what the troop wants are different. The handbook says here are a bunch of check boxes and they are all one and done. I agree it should be more than that but that's not what the handbook says. The SM might even be talking about character and leadership at every meeting  but that's not concrete enough for a 17 year old boy. It has to be: here are the expectations and you either are or aren't meeting them. These expectations are obvious to you, but not the scout.

 

Has anyone sat down with this scout and talked about what is expected? If that never happens then write it off to experience. There is some time, but not much.

 

As I've said, I've been through this before, and rule #1 in this situation is you have to believe in the scout. You have to believe that he can get something more out of the program. Anything else is unfair to the scout. You can't give him the experience all of your other Eagles got, but you can do something. My goal is always to get the scout to see what it means to be a leader, or active, or know the skills, or whatever can be done in the time that's left. It's my fault if I haven't been watching each scout. I'm playing for the long game. My hope is that in 10-20 years the scout will look back and say he understands what scouts is about. Maybe this scout is not a natural  leader. Maybe he's lazy now. Maybe he's also a 17 year old that's starting to look beyond high school. You haven't had much time with him. Can you instill a couple of experiences he can look back at with pride? Something important to ask yourself: is this scout just bad, or is it something else? (I'll talk about mom in just a sec) Is he a good kid that's just being the usual teenager that's cutting corners? Is he just painfully insecure and can't make a decision? If you set the bar where it should be, and then support him can he make it over? You only have 6 months, what can you do to make him successful?

 

Then there's mom. Mom's can be such a pain. Some see the check boxes in the handbook and the patch on the shirt and their son is going to get Eagle. Does this scout even care about Eagle? Is he just doing it for mom? If he doesn't care then all this gnashing of teeth is just putting him between the SM and the parent. Talk about no fun. As far as band and excuses and what not, drop it. Band people can be anal. It might not be this scout's fault. One thing I've seen is a scout that had been mothered so much that he couldn't make a decision. It took him until the very last moment to complete his project. He did a nice job, too. But we were going crazy. We had to teach him how to make a decision. How to make a phone call to an adult that was not related. He was honestly terrified. He did want it. He just couldn't see how to get there because mom wasn't going to do it for him. He did, however, go on a lot of campouts so there were adults that knew he liked scouts. His parents also supported us so this scout had no choice but to figure it out.

 

I'd have a blunt, honest conversation with this scout along the lines of: Do you want to get Eagle? I mean you, not your parents. If so, let's talk about what Eagle requires. Make it all very clear what is expected for both the Eagle project and his participation. Talk about how nobody is going to come and help unless he starts making connections with these people. This isn't mandated by the troop, it's just reality. No friends, no help. Make it very clear. Also, before anyone signs off on his project plans, make sure there's an understanding of what the definition of success is. It only comes into play if the scout makes a huge simplification to the point where there's no leadership. He just needs to know if he commits to something he needs to do his best to make it happen. Plans change but they shouldn't change too much. Once you've made that clear, encourage him, help him, celebrate the things that go right, and hope he makes it, but let him control his fate.

 

BTW, to solve the skills issue we have each scout, at each rank, sit down with an ASM and they review the skills. If they don't know them then they will work together until they do. We will never "fail" a scout and tell him he can't get the rank, just that he has to go back and prove he knows it. With scouts that newly join our troop from others, I've seen that first rank take several weeks. That is just enough motivation for scouts to not want to do it again, and to work some skills into activities.

[JasonG172 244]

 

   It just seems to me that Eagle is becoming a participation trophy or in this case a lack of participation trophy.

   Oh, to clear up one more thing. I am the outdoors activity coordinator on the committee. I wear 4 Mentor pins and the boys and I have a lot of fun together. It may not show in this post, but I am a sixty year old nut that likes to have fun! In 15 years this is only the second time I thought a Scout did not diverse to become an Eagle. I know it looks good on a resume, but it needs to mean something.

 

 

Thank You sir for your service 

 

I do agree with your hesitation.  I have a couple of similar stories going on myself and feel like some look at Eagle as a participation trophy as well especially from the females involved.

[perdidochas 658]

  This is the first time I have posted here but I need some guidance.

I have a Scout that came to my troop about 2 years ago complaining his old Scout master wasn't being fair to him and was picking on him.(about 16 yrs old).

   He seemed to be a nice kid with a dominant mother. We greeted him into the troop and got to know him a bit. It seemed to me that he needed a confidence builder. The boys decided on a trip to Wright Patterson AFB for our June trip last year. I put this kid in charge of setting it up. He/ his mom did a great job. That is the last trip he has attended.

   I have approached him every time I saw him about his Eagle project and coming to more meetings. The Scout master has done the same. In that time he mentioned a painting project for the church he goes to. A month ago, he wanted to meet with the committee and present his Eagle project proposal. 

He had no paper work, no plans, just an idea.

   The plan he has requires a lot of cabinet grade wood working and permission for the School to install them. I don't see anyone in our troop with those skills and as school is out for the summer I don't see him getting school board approval before September. He turns 18 in December and I don't think his project is doable by then. he also wants the committee to meet with him when HIS band schedule permits.

   In addition, he has done nothing to help or lead the troop or the other Scouts. I don't think he has made 1/3 of the meetings and hasn't come to any of the outings including two Eagle projects. I know nothing of his outdoor skills and doubt if he could recite the Outdoor Code.

   Even if this kid manages to pull off the project he selected, I can not in good conscience pass him for Eagle.

    Now the problem. The committee passed a few e-mails around that were understood to be private. I've made my feeling known and there is a lady or two in the troop that don't agree with me. Those e-mails aren't private anymore. So i guess I'm going to get accused of being mean. I guess outdoor skills and leadership don't weigh in on their idea of what an Eagle should be. They think as long as he has the merit badges and does the project he should be able to get the rank and honor.    

   I don't. In my eyes Eagle should stand for a  lot more than that.

 The kid hasn't shown leadership, that's easy. But how do I convince the women that knowledge of the Scout Hand book and outdoor skills are essential to meeting the Requirements of Eagle. Their attitude is he learned that stuff once (when he was 1st. Class) he doesn't have to be tested on it again.

 

Well, there is nothing in the Advancement process that allows retesting of the T-2-1 skills, unfortunately.

 

That said, has he done a POR for Eagle? If so, how did he do?