Webelos Visiting Troops

[blw2 433]

My recent thread on troop emails gave me an idea for another question.

As a WEBELOS dad I'm trying to think forward for my son's benefit, so that I can best advise and guide him...

and as CM, i want to give the best help I can to our WEBELOS DL AND the other boys.

 

Selecting a troop based on which friends are there, or his general feel or vibe... is of course all on him to figure out....

 

But considering patrol method, boy led, and troop structure.... and the given that many troops struggle with it in different ways....

I starting to think on how I might guide them in what to look for in a troop.

They don't really know much of anything about these concepts.

 

So I'm trying to figure out how best to guide my son (and the others) on this.....to explain how a troop is supposed to run and what he might want to look for.

 

But I'm wondering of this might backfire if the troops in the area just don't come close.....

 

SO, especially to you troop folks out there.... from your perspective

what are the things a boy should be looking for when he visits your troop?

questions to ask?

 

[qwazse 4345]

The main thing:

Are the scouts friendly, courteous, and kind? Those are the things you notice in a visit. Chances are, if those are working the other points are as well.

Does the SPL come and greet you (the parent) personally?

Are these the kind of boys you'd like your son to become?

 

The other stuff, you can work with. Understanding the PM, that's for you to understand what most scouters are (or should be) working toward. It's for you to help a troop that's on track keep chugging along, and a troop that's off the rails to get back on track.

[Gone 435]

I was a DL. I made a matrix of all the nearby troops and their attributes; cost, activities, size, leaders, distance from us, demographics, etc. I asked parents for issues of interest to them. I spoke to current scouters as to what they looked for. I went over the data and asked my sons what was most important to them. I put ALL of that on a matrix and shared with my Den. We planned visits and took notes to validate our data. We compared notes and then discussed our findings.

 

In the end I left the decision to my kids. It's their adventure, not mine.

[Stosh 3452]

When your boy visits the troop, 

 

1) Who invited them, the adults or the boys?

 

2) When you got there, who met you at the door, the adults or the boys?

 

3) After you got there, who did the talking, the adults or the boys?

 

4) Who ran the activities for the evening, the adults or the boys?

 

5) Who wanted YOU to join, the adults or the boys?

 

6) Who talked to your parents about you joining, the adults or the boys?

 

7) Who made sure you were welcomed and checked to make sure you had a good time, the adults or the boys?

 

8) Who invited you back to visit and maybe join, the adults or the boys?

 

See any pattern developing here?

 

When I was ASM of a troop another nearby troop's SM was stepping down.  I let their CC know I was available but would run a boy-led, patrol-method troop.  We had a cup of coffee.  Then I had coffee with the SM, and finally the boys "interviewed" me.  

 

Somewhere along the way, someone noticed, because it was the SPL that called me up and asked if I would be their SM.  

 

Three years later the adults had me removed because I expected too much leadership from the boys.  

 

Lesson learned...EVERYONE needs to be committed to boy-led, patrol-method if it is going to work out, not just the SM.

 

Now, with that being said, every parent needs to sit down with their boy and discuss whether or not he wants to be in which kind of troop.  There are those out there that prefer the adult-led, troop-method of scouting where they just go and everyone else does all the work.  There are plenty of troops that meet that criteria.  But to some degree or another and with some purpose in mind, there are troops out there that are or are working on the boy-led, patrol-method approach.  If your son prefers that, he may have to work on making it happen, but some troops are looking for boys with that attitude for their troop.

 

Ultimate decision is your son's!

[Eagledad 2779]

The first year I was a CM, I ask a den of 5 Webelos why they chose the troop they were just about to crossover into. They all agreed that this troop had the best game of all the troops they visited. All 5 had quit within six months.

 

Adults have to be partners in the process.

 

Barry

Edited May 16, 2015 by Eagledad

[blw2 433]

When I was ASM of a troop another nearby troop's SM was stepping down.  I let their CC know I was available but would run a boy-led, patrol-method troop.  We had a cup of coffee.  Then I had coffee with the SM, and finally the boys "interviewed" me.  

 

Somewhere along the way, someone noticed, because it was the SPL that called me up and asked if I would be their SM.  

 

Three years later the adults had me removed because I expected too much leadership from the boys.  

 

Lesson learned...EVERYONE needs to be committed to boy-led, patrol-method if it is going to work out, not just the SM.

 

@@Stosh, I've seen you reference this before.... I'm sure the full story is buried someplace among your 6,300 posts.... but forgive me, I'm not about to read through all of them....

 

"Expecting too much from the boys"

 

I know that's "code" for something....

Was it that the parents felt out of the loop?

or maybe they felt that they weren't welcome?

or were the boys complaining?

 

I've seen SM's recommend things in the interest of boy led, that would make me as a dad feel pretty put-off..... but stepping back I realize that it's a fine line in a way, for the sake of the boys you need to have the adult parents and leaders step back....but as a parent you want to be involved.

 

It seems that with our troop, they have an influx of new cub parents that are very involved.  On a recent camp trip where they hosted us, there were a lot of non-ASM committee members and maybe even parents on the camp.  I guess I expected for only ASM and the scoutmaster to be along..... but as a dad, I would certainly want the option to tag along to see what's happening....

 

So I'm wondering if friction around this area is what caused their problem with you?

[qwazse 4345]

@@blw2 I'll let Stosh speak for his situation.

But you landed on something pretty significant. In a very effective troop, the ASMs and the CC herd the adults in a particular direction so they can observe their boys without interfering. (Kind of like those special 360 enclosures at animal parks!) For example, when two scouts and their dad helped me visit a large Webelos den, I was introduced, did an opening hello to everyone, gave the scouts some ideas of questions they might want to ask the scouts, then the dad and I directed the parents to a different room and left my scouts to talk to the Webs.

Edited May 16, 2015 by qwazse

[Gone 435]

^^^^^^^

THIS a thousand times!

 

I'll add, our unit has the PLs and SPL talking to the Webelos. The JASMs talk to the adults and then the SPL comes in. All is run by the boys. The adults are around but observing.

 

We do have the odd parent who doesn't get scouts think we adults are lazy. When that happens we are glad we don't attract them.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Bad Wolf

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

A while back I posted answers to something like this.  I am going to my best to remember

 

What I told my son to look for and ask:

1) Who's doing stuff; adults or youth.

2) Find out how often they go camping?

3) What other activities do they do beside camping?

4) Are you having fun or is it boring?

5) Are the Scout welcoming you or not?

 

Things I looked for and asked

1) Who's running things, youth or adults?

2) How often do you camp?

3) If you are not camping, what other things you do?

4) Can CS leaders become leaders in the troop? (Remember, my troop growing up wanted adults 1 year a MC for "deprogramming" )

5) What are your dues, average camp out costs, and is there any fundraising?

 

My troop has an open door policy in regards to camping with Webelos. Unless it's an activity they cannot do, they are invited to camp with us. at the last lock in, which included climbing in the morning, ILST and geocaching in the afternoon, and dinner, ILST and goof off time in the evening, I was surprised that 2 Webelos came to the lock in for the entire time. Climbing i could understand, but I thought ILST would have been boring. But they had a good time and 1 joins in a month.

[Stosh 3452]

@@blw2 @@qwazse,

 

qwarzse is correct, When I took over as SM the former SM became the CC.  He understood the dynamics of what is necessary for a successful boy-led troop.  He wanted to move the boys to boy-led, but didn't have the time or energy to pull it off.  With the backing of him as CC we accomplished a ton of progress towards boy-led, patrol-method.  My ASM was an Eagle Scout but had 3 boys in the troop and a 4th coming along in a year or so.  He was the one who took over.  The former SM now CC finally needed to move on and one of the parents took over.  My tenure with her as CC lasted less than a month.  The idea that the committee is there to protect the boy's program and the SM working on it was no longer in place. 

 

Exactly what transpired or conspired I am not sure, but the CC was basically steam rolled by a newbie DE and a UC I had never met in my life and I thought I at least could recognize most scouters in the council.  If the complaints came from the boys it was only one boy and he was basically lazy and didn't want to work to the point where even his fellow scouts were on his case.  3 months prior to my removal, both the boys that Eagled that year presented me with their Mentor pins, so I'm thinking the boys didn't have much say in the process.  

 

I have heard that the troop is now basically even more adult-run than even before the other SM.  If that's the program they want for their boys, the other troop in town would have been a perfect fit, but the adults chose to move on this troop instead.  No worries.  If the adults wish to take over the troop and can steam roll the CC, then there's nothing much a SM can do.  They wanted a program that didn't fit the goals of the BSA, so moving on wasn't a big deal for me.

 

The boys invited me in because they wanted boy-led, patrol-method, and the adults invited me out because they wanted adult-led, troop-method.  In light of that dynamic, the boys lose every time. 

 

No problem, within a few months yet another struggling troop asked me to come talk about possibly taking over as SM.  After talking with their committee they chose to disband the troop rather than go with the boy-led, patrol-method process.

 

A few months after that a DE from another district approached me about setting up a new troop in an area of town that was void of a scout troop.  After a year of organization and 1 year since chartering, we are dong just fine with a boy-led, patrol-method troop that is having a great time.  No traditions to undo, just a clean slate and some really excited boys.  Just a handful of boys, but they are quickly coming up to speed..  With our reputation for boy-led, patrol-method option, we are drawing boys, not just from the section of town the troop is located in, but from all sections of town.  Half my boys come from areas that already have adult-run troops that they took a pass on.

 

6 old mildewed Eureka tents looking about 15 years old showed up in our scout room last week.  The boys dragged them out, checked them out, found out what was needed and what needed mending and started making plans to go camping in them.  It reminded me of Christmas morning.....   Show me scouts that are excited about old hand-me-down tents and I'll show you guys that are ready for the next step.

 

By the way, the comment I made was not, "Expecting too much from the boys".  The reason given was I expected too much leadership from the boys.  Big difference.  Maybe the parents felt their little boys were growing up too much, to fast.  I don't know, I just walked away and found greener pastures to play in.  It has always been interesting that what I was doing was in the third session of Green Bar Bill's leadership training when they asked me to leave.  We had already done the TLT training, but the boys wanted more.    

[blw2 433]

that list is a great help @@Eagle94-A1

thank you!

 

@@qwazse and @, thank you too.  I  think the whole thing about parents getting ushered to another room is a little weird though.... but I can see point of it....  one of those two way mirrors would be good for the new moms I'd bet 

[Rick_in_CA 401]

Lots of great advice here, but I would add my own two cents: joining a troop is not a marriage. If things don't work out, it isn't that big of a deal to move to another troop that fits better.

[Stosh 3452]

Your boys is probably going to just go with the troop that his buddies go to regardless of how well it is run.  Just make sure if the troop they pick is a problem, they continue their search rather than dropping BSA because of a bad experience.

[Gone 435]

@@qwazse and @, thank you too.  I  think the whole thing about parents getting ushered to another room is a little weird though.... but I can see point of it....  one of those two way mirrors would be good for the new moms I'd bet 

My cousin's troop does pumpkin carving as an activity for Webelos night. They use those kits and have adults supervise but the boys lead. SPL ushers the parents in to a room and he does the parent presentation. They usually get comments like, "Did we just leave 50 kids in a room with knives and cutting tools?" The SPL usually replies, "At least there aren't bears like at Philmont!"

 

The parents quickly get what their troop is about. Those who don't like that approach don't join. Weeds out the naysayers early

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

Lots of great advice here, but I would add my own two cents: joining a troop is not a marriage. If things don't work out, it isn't that big of a deal to move to another troop that fits better.

 

 

 Just make sure if the troop they pick is a problem, they continue their search rather than dropping BSA because of a bad experience.

 

 

I gotta third this sentiment. The troop I first joined wasn't a good match for me and I quit. I ended up joining a cousin's troop, and had a blast. Also two of my son's friends joined the troop I and others have issues with. They are now with us.

 

But unfortunately 2 other friends of his got so discouraged and frustrated, they quit.