problems

[BDL101 10]

I have a question regarding some problems in our pack. Recently a family was asked to leave the pack because of numerous conflicts with the parents (who were also leaders) and nearly the entire remainder of the leaders in the pack. There were also rumors and other accusations started by these parents. Once everyone got together and discussed it became obvious that we were being manipulated by this one couple. It had gotten to the point that 3/4 of the leaders in the pack were willing to leave the pack if not scouting all together it needed to avoid this couple. We held a meeting with our charter and council representatives and voted to ask the family to leave the pack.

 

A month later we have been told by our council rep that since thier boy is enrolled in the school which is our sponsor we must allow him back into the pack. While there are no problems with the boy himself we are all aware of how key parental involvement is. It is regrettable that he is not involved in out pack anymore, but I don't see how he can be without his parents. The same leaders are still willing to leave if scouting means they have to associate with this couple.

 

This is a very unpleasant situation and being fairly new to scouting (first year as a den leader), I am not sure of the rules and regulations on this type of situation. I have not had much luck finding anything on the internet either. If anyone has any suggestions or sources of information I would appreciate it.

 

God Bless

[LauraT7 13]

Scouting membership in TROOPS is not regulated by location, nor does being in a certain "pack" mean you MUST go up to a certain 'troop'. ('feeder packs' are common, but noting in BSA says you MUST go from the same CO's pack to their troop) Boys are encouraged by national to 'shop' for a troop that fits their needs - regardless of it's location or charter organization affiliation.

 

logically, it would follow that packs are open to membership by choice, also.

 

I can see that recruiting habits and tradition might establish that if you attend "X" school that you then join "X" pack - but as far as I can find out there is no BSA rule that says a pack or troop MUST accept particular group members.

 

If there are no other packs in the area that he can join, you have to ask yourselves if you want to deny a boy the opportunity for scouting just to keep his parents in line. If there ARE no other packs he can join, you might invite him back - but have a group of adults make it very clear to the parents that their interferance will not be tolerated.

 

Now the flip side of this is that the pack and troop are OWNED by the charter organization - which is often a school or church. The charter organization 'may' have the right to demand that you accept their members, but I really don't think they have that right either - or else they could force you to accept girls or gays, or even little green martians!

 

I think your "council rep" is wrong - and what is a 'council rep' anyway? this is term I haven't heard. Are you talking about your Charter Organization Rep? or your District Commissioner? or something else?

 

Where's Bob White? Or Dave Steele? I'll bet they know the guide for this!

 

Laura

[Bob White 20]

The decision of who can be a member belongs to the charter organization. Make sure the Institution Head and the Charter Organization Representative are aware of the problem. They are the ones who determine membership. The vote of the committee is irrelevant except for giving the IH and COR a reading on the feelings of the registered leaders in the unit. But they are not required to act according to the wishes of the majority.

[eisely 13]

I am not sure that BW is right on this one.

 

It is my understanding that the chartered organization, through its institutional head and/or chartered organization representative can remove members, both youth and adult, from the unit, but not from scouting altogether. This is not the same thing as approving membership in the first place.

 

Units can refuse membership to applicants, although this power is seldom exercised. For example, a unit may set a limit on the number of new youth members it will take in. It has been a long time since I looked at an application for a youth to be in cub scouts. Doesn't somebody in the unit have to sign an approval of the application on this form? A scoutmaster or cubmaster refusing to approve an application would not, IMHO, require even the knowledge, much less the approval, of the chartered organization or any of its representatives or agents.

 

I have never heard of a general requirement for a unit to accept all applicants from the chartered organization, in this case a school, although I can envision situations where that might be the case. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a single good source to refer you to. If you are seriously concerned about the legalities, you should seek from your district executive executive access to the official BSA rules and regulation on membership matters. You probably also should look at the charter agreement between your school and the council.

 

Having said all that, I think it is perfectly within the power of the unit to accept the youth membership while refusing the membership of the parents. Somebody has to be willing to communicate with the parents in this situation just what the conditions are for the boy's membership.

 

We had a somewhat similar situation many years ago in our pack. That situation resolved itself when the parents transferred their memberships to another unit.

[dsteele 20]

It sounds to me like the appropriate people from the charter partner and the local council are already involved. They are aware of nuances, etc. that I can't pick up on-line and really can't comment on the specifics of this case without taking the chance that something I saw will hamper the efforts of the people who are handling the issue.

 

If I'm reading the original post correctly, it sounds like the charter rep (some people call them council reps, and a bunch of other things) has said that the pack has to let the boy in, but not his parents. I've seen that done and have no problem with it I've actually worked with units that have done that. They allowed the parents to come to pack meetings, but not much else.

 

Good luck with your situation. Keep working with your chartered partner and district/council leadership.

 

Dave

[Bob White 20]

Let me clarify. I was only speaking about unit membership. I did not mean to imply that a charter organization can determine membership in the BSA, if you got that impression I'm sorry. Once someone joins the BSA only the council or national may remove them from BSA membership, however that does not restrict the CO from being able to remove them from the unit. That just means they have until the end of their membership period to register with another unit and only pay a $1 transfer fee. Of course if someone is removed from the unit the Council Scout executive needs to be informed.

 

[scouter659 10]

Yes it is sticky, isnt it? We had a similar situation in our Troop where a dad who was also a leader had to go for a variety of very good reasons. Now he and his wife are divorced but somewhat amicable. Their son is in our Troop and doing well, a great kid. Mom watches him (and us, the leaders) like a hawk but she is, inside, a good person who also understood the problems with the dad. True we could not remove him from Scouting, and that wasnt our intent but he WAS detrimental to the Unit. Its sad and, fortunately, very rare when something like this happens. I wish you luck.

[BDL101 10]

I'm sorry I misspoke in the original post. It was the district exec who advised us at first to ask this family to leave then recently informed us that we would have to bring the cub scout back into the pack.

 

While I agree it is not a good thing to deny this boy the chance to be a scout, most of the key leadership in our pack will resign and leave if they have to deal with his parents. Things were said and done that may be forgiven (with difficulty) but not forgotten. It is like being run over by a truck, you can forgive the driver, but will not put yourself in his way again.

 

There were several meeeting, both in private and public, in which this couple was confronted and asked to stop. However, conditions only worsened and ultimately they were asked to leave.

[ScoutNut 147]

BDL101 - Are there any other Packs nearby that this family could transfer to?

[BDL101 10]

Yes there are other quite a few packs in the area. Unfortunately this family seems intent on ours.

 

It is hard to describe the situation with out going into all the "gory details" but it involves some inapropriate behaviour by the parents as well as unfounded accusations made by the parents. There were also many issues of contention over planning, money collection, etc that when sorted out all centered around these parents.

 

As I said earlier, I am new to leadership in scouting and find it difficult to bellieve that there is not a code, rules of conduct, etc to protect packs in situations like these. I am just having a lot of trouble finding help or guidance in what is the right way to handle something like this. I agree it is not right or fair to deny the boy the ability to be a part of scouting, but if the pack disintegrates over this all will lose out. Though I am sure the pack will survive in some form, the core group of our most dedicated leadership have all stated that they will leave the pack if not scouting all together if forced to associate with this family.

[EagleInKY 14]

BDL - I hope the best for you in this situation. Volunteer leadership is a challenging thing. The "pay" for this job is great, when times are good. Unfortunately, they don't "pay" us enough for the painful times.

 

I haven't dealt with a situation exactly like this, but I have dealt with some problem parents in the past. I'm not a professional, and I'm only offering some ideas. I don't know your exact situation, so it may not apply.

 

I believe it has already been made clear that your Chartering Organization has the right to deny membership to a youth or a leader if they don't meet some particular standard. It sounds like that is exactly what happened with the parents. They have been denied ("asked", to be PC) the right to be registered adult leaders. But, they are telling you that the boy is not the problem, so you must keep him in the troop.

 

Regarding "codes" or "rules of conduct", I have a couple of thoughts. There is the original Cub Scout membership application that they filled out. There is some form of an agreement there. You may check to see if they have violated that. The only other code we live by is the Oath & Law. But these really apply to the Scout, not the parents.

 

From my distant point of view, I see that you have two options. One, allow the boy to participate in the pack, but require the parent's to keep their distance. They can come to pack meetings, but cannot hold any leadership position. They need to keep their mouth's shut. I don't know how you'll handle special events such as Pinewood Derby & family campouts.

 

Option 2 is the heavy handed approach, but one that I may be inclined to use. Go to the CO, tell them that your leadership is going to walk out if this boy stays in the pack (make sure this is true before you threaten it). Remind them that there are other packs to go to, so let them move on. Otherwise, all of you are going to move on. If you guys are as good as I hope you are, the CO would be foolish to choose the boy with the problem parent's over the current pack leadership. The problem family can move on to a pack down the road, and life will go on.

 

[ScoutNut 147]

From what you say, it is your District Executive (DE) who is telling you you must take the boy into your Pack, NOT your Charter Organization (CO) and Charter Organization Rep (COR). Your CO and COR are saying that they do NOT want the family at all.

 

Your DE is very wrong. A unit (Pack, Troop, Crew) is owned by their CO not by the council. A CO has the right to accept or not accept any boy, or adult into their unit. Just because your CO is a school does not mean they have to accept everyone, no matter what. Your council can not say that if a boy goes to such and such school he MUST go to such and such Pack. We just had a 3rd grade boy join our Pack because he and his family were not happy with the Pack at his school.

 

I would have your Cubmaster and your Charter Org Rep talk to your District Executive again. If this does not work they should then go to your council's Scout Executive (head of the entire council).

[EagleInKY 14]

Scoutnut is correct, if that is the case. I was interpreting it that the DE was telling you that you have to accept the scout since the CO wants you to. If that is the case, I stand by my suggestion. If it is just the DE saying it, he/she is incorrect.

[BDL101 10]

Thank you all for all your advice. Our pack chair is in the process of writing a letter to the Distric Exec now. We will have to wait and see what comes down from there. We do have an excellent core group and work very well together. I just hate seeing all the effort going into this situation rather than where it should be - on making sure our boys are having a great experience.

[bill_troop_157 10]

When I first took over as committee chair for my troop I also had a few problems with some parents. My committee knows when there is a problem I will ask one question?

How will this Benefit the boys and or the troop. If they cannot answer that question topic is dropped.

 

The other one I get is because thats the way we always did it. My answer is dont tell me how we used to do it, tell me how we can improve it.

 

Im not the must loved Committee Chair, but all politics, back stabbing, secret meeting have stopped. The Uniformed leaders now get full support of the committee. The most powerful tool I have is enclosed. Usually when the parents are removed for any position for the troop they take their son and go elsewhere. We have never asked a boy to leave the troop.

 

Dear ??????,

 

Thank you for your, past comment and help on the committee of Troop 157. At the present time, as the troop has grown and new incoming parents want positions on the committee, I feel your services are no longer required.

 

 

I wish you luck in your future endeavors. If you have any questions please feel free to call me at xxxxxxx (home) or xxxxxxxx (work) at your convenience.

 

Thank you,

 

 

 

Committee Chair