Two Pack Meetings Per Month ... Split By Age / Rank

[blw2 433]

 

EagleDad - We'll try it your way.  We have no choice.  Council pushes the recruitment info out and we're going to get some kindergarten scouts no matter what. 

 

And it sort of gets to the heart of this thread, splitting the larger pack into two groups by age.  I'd almost like to do it with Tigers too.

 

 

And maybe we'll create a dummy schedule for them to start with some go-see-its, etc.

 

Interesting thread

If I were in your shoes, I would drive to just say no to the Lions council can push, but that can't make you do it.  What are they gonna do, cut your pay?  Fire you?

 

 

But to go back to your originally point, I think you would lose a lot if you went to splitting the Pack by age, both with parents that span the age break, and parents that get lost with the split from one age group to the next (as what happens too often in Webelos Transition now).  ....

 i agree with this point.  I'm finding it hard enough to get parents to volunteer the first time for one meeting.

and there is a real conflict between too many meetings, den or pack (tough for a parent to get to them) and not enough meetings (easy to lose energy)

I understand you point though about splitting so that the pack isn't dumbed down, and think it's a good one, but I predict more problems than not....

 

This thread reminds me of something I have posted before, and thought of many times....  The only way I see good from the Tiger program, and I suppose this would extend to Lions, or to Wolf if we went back to a 2nd grade start....

but I think the 1st year would work much better if a pack were to have a perpetual leader for that entry level den.

I always picture a retired school teacher that loves kids and just want to be involved, even if her own kid or grandkid isn't involved.

This grandmotherly lady would be able to help them to hit the ground running with a fun program

She already knows the drill. Knows the players.  Grounds them into the program.

she would be able to eliminate the stress on the parents of the push to recruit one of them as leader right away.

Let them ease into it....

and help to select and groom future leaders

[SeattlePioneer 144]

<<

Have any packs experimented with splitting pack meetings by rank ?  I ask because some pack meetings do fine as big events.  But our pack might grow where we would have 25+ Lions and Tigers and then another 25+ Wolves, Bears and Webelos.   

>>

 

 

I'd try it if I had the numbers to support it,  which I don't.

 

 

I'd do Tigers-Wolves and Bears &Webelos,  and dump lyons.

 

I haven't done Lyons, nor would I try it for the reasons you describe.

 

Of course,  use your own judgment and experience,  not mine.

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[fred johnson 936]

We have no choice.  Council publishes fliers and advertising.  BSA does online registration.  Lately the council started taking over getting fliers into schools too, but I'd say our pack leaders had more success with that then the professional scouters.  Waste of their time IMHO.  

 

I'm going to take the suggestion offered here ... we won't have a live person.  But we'll have a city appropriate schedule for the Lions ... all laid out with go-see-its and a location to meet.   We'll encourage them to be separate but attend fun things.  

[SeattlePioneer 144]

<<

but I think the 1st year would work much better if a pack were to have a perpetual leader for that entry level den.

I always picture a retired school teacher that loves kids and just want to be involved, even if her own kid or grandkid isn't involved.

This grandmotherly lady would be able to help them to hit the ground running with a fun program

She already knows the drill. Knows the players.  Grounds them into the program.

she would be able to eliminate the stress on the parents of the push to recruit one of them as leader right away.

Let them ease into it....

and help to select and groom future leaders>>

 

 

Ummm....

 

 

I've been the Tiger Cub Den Leader for eight years now.

 

The advantages are just as you describe.   When I find an excellent event or activity,  I add it to the ones I recycle to a new group each year.

 

That works great.

 

But I still have a heavy amount of turnover.  Probably too many meetings for a lot of parents to be interested in attending.

[Eagledad 2779]

 

EagleDad - We'll try it your way.  We have no choice.  Council pushes the recruitment info out and we're going to get some kindergarten scouts no matter what. 

 

And it sort of gets to the heart of this thread, splitting the larger pack into two groups by age.  I'd almost like to do it with Tigers too.

 

 

And maybe we'll create a dummy schedule for them to start with some go-see-its, etc.

 

I will tell you how we did it, you can pick and choose what works for you. By the way, if I were you, I would include the Tigers.

 

 

Anyways, we met with all the Tiger families as soon as we recruited them and asked two families to sign up for one month to call and brief the families of the schedule. We actually had them meet us at the lake on a Saturday morning and provided equipment for them to fish and cooked them breakfast. If was intended to start them off with a fun activity while getting to know them. What I didn't expect were the memories of watching parents fishing with the sons for the very first time. It still brings tears. After eating, we met for a few minutes to ask the parents to pick their month to call, and them give a few very basic expectations or rules to set up their meetings, thing like we don't advise meeting at a home, and so on. Very brief meeting because we didn't want it to take away from the morning experience of fishing, pancakes and sausage. You can find something else, but starting off like that sure hooked a few families on the fence. We had no trouble getting enough dads to volunteer cooking and help fishing. 

 

 

We got one Tiger coordinator who was typically at one time was a Den Leader. I wanted a veteran that new the pack and scouting system. That person would go to all the committee meetings to keep up with the pack schedule and represent the Tigers. The Tiger Coordinator was the go to person for anyone that needed to ask a Tiger question. This was a huge burden taken off of the CM because I didn't have to keep track of who was the contact at that time. The coordinator was really their CM to some degree. They also helped the Tiger group build their schedule of the meetings which usually just meant communicating with the two adults who were responsible for communications that month. The coordinator just kept things running smooth.

 

 

We gave the Tiger parents a few typical ideas of go-see-its and ask them to figure out which one they wanted at what time. We asked for an 2^nd meeting as well, which could be a Pack meeting if they chose. All that we asked was that they not meet at a home because we found that the scouts go play in one room while the parents hung around in the other. while we didn't ask them to achieve a lot at the meetings, we did want the boys and adults together so they got to know each other better. 

 

 

Our objective was for two families doing the calling just so they would meet with the other parents and get to know their names. They were responsible for arranging the two meetings, but that was an easy task for two familes.

 

 

Now we did ask the Tiger familes to participate in Blue and Gold, Pinewood  Derby, and any other fun Pack activity like roller skate party. The main objective there was to expose the parents to how the pack works (fun stuff), so that when we did ask for volunteers, they had an idea of how small a job it really was. I was told a few years later that this idea worked very well because the adults weren’t nearly as apprehensive about volunteering as they might have been if approached early without really seeing the responsibility. 

 

 

About March, the Tiger Coordinator and I would go through the list of parents and try to pick out two good leaders. Part of the coordinators responsibility was to observe the parents enough to learn their styles. I then would find a moment to talk with them and ask them to consider the job. I let them think about it for a few days, then I would call them to schedule some basic trainings for Wolves. The training was really intended more as the committment. So by April, we typically had our Wolf leaders and we introduced then at our May campfire.

 

 

I’m sure there is more here, but our objective was letting the parents ease their way into the program by letting them set up the go and see its and meetings to their schedule. We tried to take away every excuse parents typically had for not joining. The coordinator would follow by calling the parents responsible to make sure all was going well. There was never a need for the coordinator to call the whole list, just the parents for that month. If any issues came up with familes, the coordinator would bring it to me the SM or the committee. That rarely ever happened.

 

 

I hope I’m not making this sound like a big job for the coordinator, I tried hard for that job to never be more than 1 hour a week, if that. 

 

 

We found that by January, the group had bonded enough to really start to enjoy the program. It was fun, but not overly appressive to their schedule. I found that every family we had by January typically started as a Wolf the next year. So if you can get them through the first four months, you got them for four more years. Oh, I guess five with the Lions. Sheesh.

 

 

Now because you have Lions and Tigers, some of this may not work. You will have to figure out a plan. But trust me, leaders down the road will be thankful for your experience, whatever the results. As I said, I calculated Tigers double the work in the pack, I can’t imagine how the Lions are adding to the equation.

 

 

I wish you the best in this because I know how much of your heart you are investing.

 

 

Barry

 

[pargolf44067 57]

 

Ummm....

 

 

I've been the Tiger Cub Den Leader for eight years now.

 

The advantages are just as you describe.   When I find an excellent event or activity,  I add it to the ones I recycle to a new group each year.

 

That works great.

 

But I still have a heavy amount of turnover.  Probably too many meetings for a lot of parents to be interested in attending.

 

God bless you! You have to have a tremendous amount of patience to deal with 1st graders all the time for 8 straight years.  I have a friend of mine that was Cubmaster for a long time after his son moved to Boy Scouts.  Just the hour I spend at Blue and Golds for crossover ceremonies drives me crazy with all that chaos and running around of little kids  .

[blw2 433]

We have no choice.  Council publishes fliers and advertising.  BSA does online registration.  Lately the council started taking over getting fliers into schools too, but I'd say our pack leaders had more success with that then the professional scouters.  Waste of their time IMHO.  

 

I'm going to take the suggestion offered here ... we won't have a live person.  But we'll have a city appropriate schedule for the Lions ... all laid out with go-see-its and a location to meet.   We'll encourage them to be separate but attend fun things.  

Not that it may be all that productive, but I'll bet your pack could put a stop to it if you really wanted to.  

It might take printing up your own flyers instead of using theirs....

or maybe even telling them to not bother coming to your school, that you will do it....

Just don't provide support for it or a leader

[blw2 433]

<<

but I think the 1st year would work much better if a pack were to have a perpetual leader for that entry level den.

I always picture a retired school teacher that loves kids and just want to be involved, even if her own kid or grandkid isn't involved.

This grandmotherly lady would be able to help them to hit the ground running with a fun program

She already knows the drill. Knows the players.  Grounds them into the program.

she would be able to eliminate the stress on the parents of the push to recruit one of them as leader right away.

Let them ease into it....

and help to select and groom future leaders>>

 

 

Ummm....

 

 

I've been the Tiger Cub Den Leader for eight years now.

 

The advantages are just as you describe.   When I find an excellent event or activity,  I add it to the ones I recycle to a new group each year.

 

That works great.

 

But I still have a heavy amount of turnover.  Probably too many meetings for a lot of parents to be interested in attending.

how many meetings do you hold, that seem like too much?

This has been a side discussion I have been having with a DL lately, who generally does 2 den mtgs per month. Some months with pack camping &/or holiday conflicts may only have 1 den mtg....

It strikes me that 3 den mtgs + 1 pack meeting makes a mtg every week but would likely be good to keep them engaged.  Not so big a deal if one is missed, etc...

BUT he feels that 1-2 den mtgs is about right.  Actually I agree with him from the perspective of a parent, but not as CM....

[blw2 433]

..... Lately the council started taking over getting fliers into schools too, but I'd say our pack leaders had more success with that then the professional scouters.  Waste of their time IMHO. .....

I was thinking about this statement....

This past fall, we had our Field Director doing it in place of our vacant DE.  He was actually a very good guy and even came out and helped with our sign-up night after my leader that was chairing the event quit the day before....

I would say that he did an excellent job of recruiting, EXCEPT he mislead them a bit.  Not purposefully I don't think though....

An informal survey of our new kids mostly were lassoed in with promises of camping on the local pro ballfield and watching a movie on the jumbotron..... and to a lessor degree BB shooting.

Once they found out that these are limited council run events, and not the norm, we had a high drop rate this year....