Reverence in Scouting

[Rooster7 11]

Toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe - NoI dont think I am splitting hairs over phraseology. There is a profound difference in respecting others who have different beliefs, and respecting the beliefs of others. The former is focused on the person. The latter is focused on the philosophy. I suspect that whoever revised the BSA policy or at least whoever composed the written policy knows the difference. What I dont know is this: Is the BSA hierarchy aware that the PC crowd is infiltrating their ranks? Wording like this does not happen by accident. Someone is trying to make a statement and I think it has more to do with liberal philosophy than it does with being reverent.

[Bob White 20]

Oh for heaven's sake, don't tell me those pesky black helicopters are circling again? First we are not PC because we don't allow atheists and now we are because we ask scouts to be respectfull of people and their choice of worship.

 

Face it folks the BSA is not left or right. It hovers gently in the middle and floats a little each way. It always has. It's fine to discuss what the program is and how to best deliver it to our youth but these talks of conspiracies, infiltrations and secret alliances, etc... are just silly.

[Jason OK 10]

I agree with Rooster......I tend to think the people that worship God (Christian)consistantly sees more than the person who just goes to church on Easter.

[Rooster7 11]

Bob White,

 

I never said the BSA was left leaning - nor do I believe that. I'm just saying that whoever rewrote this particular policy has an agenda that is less than pure. They have more in mind than just the 12th point of the law. So, if you want to call me silly - go ahead, I have no problem with that assertion. But don't add to my words. They are what they are, minus: "the pesky black helicopters", "conspiracies", and "secret alliances". I did not say the BSA was PC because we ask scouts to be respectful of people and their choice of worship." Bob - these words are yours, not mine.

 

As much as I like you (and more often than not, I truly do like you or rather your postings) - you need know something. Your knee-jerk defenses of the BSA regardless of the depth and breadth of criticism put forth, tends to undermine your position. Anyone posting on this forum knows that you are steadfastly on the opposite side of any criticism aimed at the BSA. This is great if youre trying to demonstrate your faithfulness to the organization (an admirable quality by the way), but it does not support your position when it comes to determining truth.

 

With that said, I think we those of us who love the BSA as it has been for the past eight decades or so (i.e., as a values based organization that helps young boys become men), need to be vigilante and stand guard against those who would like to turn the organization into something else. I am merely calling attention to what I believe is, an aberration from the values that were espoused in the bygone days of the BSA. Whenever something changes, we should examine the motives behind that change.

 

[Jason OK 10]

Rooster,

 

Do you write speeches for a living? Very eloquently put.

 

[Guest OldGreyEagle]

" ...I tend to think the people that worship God (Christian)consistantly sees more than the person who just goes to church on Easter..."

 

lets not forget that the God of the Bible, that of Abraham is the same God worshipped by Christian, Jew and Muslim alike.

 

[Jason OK 10]

OldGreyEagle,

 

With all due respect sir.........you are right....BUT...God said the Gentiles (or anyone else) that is against the Jews will be in big trouble. That's one reason why Real Christians support Jews. (Bridges for Peace in Israel www.bridgesforpeace.com) Now here is the touchy part.......If you read your bible it says that Ishmael would be a wild donkey of a man and his hand against his brothers. Muslims are decedents of Ishmael. Just like our country was founded on Judeo Christian beliefs I also believe so were the scouts...but I do believe in respecting a persons right to his or her beliefs. This is just my opinion.

What about religions that believe in violence? And I just don't mean violence I mean horrific acts of violence. Like Horror Movie violence. Should they be aloud in Scouts?

(This message has been edited by Jason OK)

[Bob White 20]

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[boleta 10]

Well...

Jason and Rooster are making my point exactly. Some are so insistent on following the guidelines of the program exactly as written. The HB says respect the conviction and beliefs of others in matters of custom and religion. Now we see that many will refuse to do so. Aren't they failing to follow the program? Why should this be any different than dismissing the atheist for not following the program? This is why such respect is the most important part of the 12th point.

[Jason OK 10]

Boleta,

 

You're staring to sound like you want to take God out of the Scout Oath. Do you think it belongs in the pledge?

 

I respect the right of others to practice whatever religion they choose. But don't be-little my right to debate the subject. Some could say since some religions allow gays then Scouts should allow gays. I think if you research Scouts you will find we are a Christian Rooted program.(This message has been edited by Jason OK)

[boleta 10]

You are presumptuous in thinking that the founders of the Scouting movement were thinking about Christianity when the Oath and Law refer to God.

Respect the beliefs of others. I have said nothing about taking God out of the Oath or Scouting. I ask only that YOU respect the 1.2 billion Hindus in this world, the 1.2 billion Bhuddists in this world, the Muslims, Jews, etc. ALL of these religions are represented by the religious award in the Boy Scouts of America.

Religious institutions that are incompatible with the tenets of the BSA are not allowed to be Charter Organizations. If it insists on allowing gays, it would not get a charter since this has been defined by National as not compatible with the program.

Clearly, the religion that calls me infidel for failing to believe the way it believes has a problem with the respect part of the Scout Law. Baden-Powell said nothing about Christianity in his original Handbook.

[Jason OK 10]

Boleta,

 

Did you notice the winking eye?

[Rooster7 11]

I ask only that YOU respect the 1.2 billion Hindus in this world, the 1.2 billion Bhuddists in this world...

 

Again, I respect all of these people, but I don't have to respect who or what they worship.

[packsaddle 753]

I am curious. How does one 'teach' religion 'by example' if not through its practice?

 

As a parent and an observer of scout parents, if any leader in this troop began to 'teach' religion beyond customary practices by the leaders such as giving thanks at meals or a Sunday devotional, they would be (and have been in the past) met with strong objections.

 

The reason is that the troop is quite diverse in religious backgrounds, and the parents are quite determined to raise their children as THEY see fit. The CO only has a couple of the families in the troop and the vast majority are from other churches and faiths. Any religious observance we choose will be as non-denominational as possible.

 

This issue has arisen in the past and after a review of the lack of credentials possessed by the 'teacher' in the subject, as well as the negative reaction by some of the parents to what they see as usurping their responsibilities to their families, the idea of going beyond our current practice has been shelved indefinitely. I strongly support that decision.

[Bob White 20]

Rooster,

The version of the Law that you say you supported charged you to respect others religious customs did it not? Isn't that "how they worship"?

 

Can you not respect their choice in custom and ceremony without agreeing with it? Isn't allowing them to practice their religion without interference or insult a way to show respect?

 

Nothing in the Law says you need to agree with their tenets, just to allow them their choice of worship.