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Venturing Specialty, Rovering?

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OK Dana, (deep breath) to be absolutely fair I looked at the sight, wathched the PowerPoints, read some articles, and NO WONDER they became a Venture Crew. Did you read the information at that sight Dana?


THERE IS NO ROVER PROGRAM. They have no organization, they have no centralized support. They have only the guidebook they wrote, they have no advancement program, no recognitions except antiques that they have to search for. THERE IS NO U.S. ROVER PROGRAM.


Their goals of the ideals of scouting, skills, and service, are no different than Venturing. They base their program on the writings of Dan Beard, they have no connection to the Rover programs in the other countries they list (except as Pen Pals) who all use the UK program and have no connection to Beard. Beard was a designer of the US Scouting program.


They adopted Venturing because it had everything their unit lacked, organization, connection to scouting, recognitions, advancement, camps, insurance, shared goals.


You have yet to identify a single concrete advantage or an element that Rovers have that Venturing doesn't. Now I see why.


What I don't get is how you think this would solve the inability of a leader to lead a Venturing program.


and PLEASE just press the enter button ONCE when you are ready to post.

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Thanks for checking that site, I have checked the site myself and maybe I thought that Rovering would be a good choice for a specialty for a Venturing crew to use, because of the similarities, you are right in what you say about all what Venturing has and all what Rover Scouts has in their program. I was looking at it as a more different program that I thought had potential. There are the UK and International Rovering Programs also on the Dan Beard site there was a link to download and print a Rovering magazine and other things. Maybe I am not seeing basics here. Ok. But I feel that Venturers the individuals need to get back to the basics of "Venturing styled scouting" and this would be an elementary way to do it. Iam not saying Venturing or Venturing Division but the individuals in the program. But I am ready to let this die, I cannot after all we said this evening really give you concrete answer to be honest. Thanks for your patience and time.


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Dear all:


As one of the leaders for the Dan Beard Crew, here are my perspectives on Rovering and Venturing. They are one persons opinion, of course, and is neither gospel nor dogma.


I elected to help start a Rover Crew because I was impressed and inspired by the Rovers that I had met over the years, because it was a meaningful experience for me when I was a young Rover Scout, and because it provided a way of doing scouting for young adults of roughly college age.


We used the venturing program as our means of chartering our crew, since, as has been pointed out several times, there is no longer an official Rovering program within the structure of the BSA. One option we had considered was to create an ad hoc group of interested Scouters (similar in structure to the Order of the Arrow, as it relates to the idea of drawing members from different units), but as some of the individuals interested in participating in the crew were not presently involved in a scout unit (a girl scout leader excepted, but a different program, obviously), we elected to charter our unit as a venture crew, with a specialization in Rovering (Indeed, offering one more parenthetical thought, Rovering was a program specialty in Exploring a number of years ago, to assist in the transition of former chartered BSA Rover Crews into the Exploring fold).


Can one have Venturing without Rovering? Of course. Can one have Rovering without Venturing? Again--of course.


One helpful part of Rovering, from my perspective, is that it has a series of traditions and international connections that are pretty much unheard of in this country. Example: the World Scout Moot [(http://www.moot2004.org/)formerly the World Rover Scout Moot] is an international scouting event for young Scouters from around the world, similar in structure to a World Jamboree, but designed for older youth/young adults (moot ages in 2004 are 18-26). The BSA has elected to send a group of Venturers to the moot, but only those from 18-20, in this case excluding the older group.


Our crew has participated in one local moot already (with the kind and generous welcome of Rover Scouts in Canada) and we look forward to attending more in the near future. Someday, we would even like to host our own moot and share the hospitality we have experienced, but as we are a young crew, that is for the future.


A final thoughtthe mottos used in scouting around the world:

CubsDo Your Best

ScoutsBe Prepared

VenturersLook Wide (motto not used in BSA)



The powerful thing about having the whole range of scouting experiences in place encourages young people as they move through their experiences are to "do their bestto be preparedto look wideand give service." Certainly, this can be accomplished in some ways through venturingbut the exploration/"looking wide" part of the scouting experience at that level...to my thinking (and apparently B-Ps) then be followed by the aim of service.


Im off to Wisconsin to deliver some training at a scouting university...I look forward to a continued gentlemanly exchange of information and ideas. :-)




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Rover scout,

i'm sure you have a fine group and you obviously enjoy it. But correct me if I'm wrong, your unit (without) Venturing does not hold a BSA charter, It is not a part of the BSA, Your US membership is maybe several dozen, perhaps a couple hundred at best? Most of your program, goals, and ideals are already in the Venturing program. You gain several positive benefits from rejoining the BSA program by becoming a Venturing Crew.


Dana, expects to solve the problem of a crew that doesn't do a good job of following the Venturing program by giving them another program to not follow. For as many fine characteristics the Rovers may have it cannot solve Dana's problems, and would not bring any program activity or feature to a crew that is not already available to them as Venturers.



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Old Grey Eagle reply:

Rover Scout, I will be in the Chicago area in early June, where do you guys meet and when? Sounds like something I would like to know about.


We wont be holding a meeting in June, as several members of the crew are on camp staff and Ill be teaching at National Camping School and Philmont. We can correspond off-list if youd like some more information.



Bob White reply:

Rover scout,

I'm sure you have a fine group and you obviously enjoy it. But correct me if I'm wrong, your unit (without) Venturing does not hold a BSA charter,


Correctwe have a BSA Charter. We had considered registering members of the crew as members of our district committee, and meeting separately as a Rover Crew.


It is not a part of the BSA,

Since we have a BSA Charter, we are by definition part of the BSA. :-)


Your US membership is maybe several dozen, perhaps a couple hundred at best?

Youth membership in our crew is five; adult membership is six


Most of your program, goals, and ideals are already in the Venturing program.

You are correct here as well. What I need to add is that a Rover Crew is designed for young adults from 18-~26. The college students I work with in the Crew are enthusiastic, energetic, and have strong values and a good sense of humor. They also do not have time (in most cases) to take on adult roles such as full-time unit leaders. What rovering offers them is a chance to do scouting as a group of young adults. For those who elect to take on additional roles as unit leaders, we encourage that as well.


Given that we are a BSA unit, we operate with BSA guidelines. We know, understand, and apply all appropriate policies (e.g., youth protection, sleeping arrangements on outings, etc.) but our program is developed and implemented by the crew as a whole. In this case, members of the crew are defined as those between 18 and 26. Those under 21 are registered as Venturers; those over 21 are registered as committee members or advisors. What our program structure allows them to do is to work as a single team.with two of us old (older than 40) leaders serving as the advisors for the group of the younger adults.


You gain several positive benefits from rejoining the BSA program by becoming a Venturing Crew.

Again, to emphasize, we have always been a part of the BSA.



Dana, expects

I would not to presume to state what Dana is planning to do, [ :-) ] but I am happy that Ive been able to shed a little light on how our crew operates based on him starting the discussion thread. My personal position is that the BSA would do well to reconsider the use of the Rovering program. On some level, the service and leadership ideals associated with Alpha Phi Omega seem to be very similar to Rovering (I have had no direct experience with APO, save for some of my students being members), but Rovering properly represents the culmination of the scouting experience, and can serve as a fitting capstone for a series of age and developmentally appropriate experiences that begin at ageas well as some fine opportunities to do some camping and engage in some fellowship.




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Rover Scout I would like to thank you for the information that you presented here to us concerning your crew and the Rover Scout Program. My intention is to introduce an interesting side specialty to outdoor Venturing crews to help keep their interests. Bob is right about one thing though and that is if a Venturing crew has a problem keeping youth interested then that is a problem with leadership. I do agree with that statement. However my intention is to keep Venturing traditional and I realize that we can do that without a Rover Program, But I feel that we need to put a little more of BP back into Venturing. There has been some changes and we need to get back to the heart and soul of what Venturing is could be more of. But I do still believe that as we follow the program we instill a little more into it. And if this were a specialty for Venturing then we could blend it in with the Venturing program and make it the heart and soul of the program. I hope you understand my point. Other scouters seem to have a problem doing that. Fun and Tradition can be blended together. Thanks Dana.

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