Clarification on Charter Organization Representatives

[Bob White]

A comment was made in a string regarding popcorn funds that said...

The 2 programs (CS Packs & BS Troops), even if chartered by the same organization have different leaders, different Committees, different bank accounts. They MIGHT (not necessarily) share a Charter Organization Rep and a Unit Commissioner but that is it!

 

The point I want to clarify is that while they might have different Unit Commissioners, if they share the same charter organization they only get one Charter Organization Representative (COR).

 

Charter reps are voting members of the district and council committees. Each organization gets one vote (one COR) regardless of how many scouting programs they sponsor. If your Charter organization has a Pack and a Troop and you have two CORs it is only because the error has not been caught by the office staff.

 

To verify this information see the Troop Committee Guide or the Cub Leader Handbook under Charter Organization Representative or get the pamphlet Role of the Charter Organization Representative from your local scout office.

 

A public service announcement from your local

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Twocubdad]

Yo, Bob, a question about commissioners. At our District Committee's planning conference awhile back, our DC said one of his goals was to re-organize the commissioner corps so that UCs don't necessarily serve their "home" units. Sounds like a good idea, since commissioners sometimes need to serve as a disinterested brokers when problems arise.

 

Two weeks later, the same DC called my Cubmaster to let him know that the Pack needs to recruit a new UC for ourselves. The position has been vacant for nearly a year and "under-filled" for a long time before that.

 

Which approach is right and/or best. In either event, I don't think it's the unit's responsibility to find it's own UC, although I would like to have some input as to who it is.

 

(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[Bob White]

In the past I have served as an Asst. District Commissioner and a District Commissioner. Although I inherited Unit Commissioners that were from within the troop they served I never recruited any myself. evn the ones who were good decent folks and active volunteers, made horrible commissioners. The reason is they had no objectivity. for those UC's serving their own troop evry report from them was the same "everythings fine". I can't telll you how many units I have seen bite the dust a month after their home grown commissioner said "everythings fine".

 

I would never recruit a person to commissioner their own unit. They either can't see the problem or they ask someone else to step in because they are "too close to the problem". either way they are no good to me as a UC.

 

The Commissioner Guide recommends that the UC not come from the unit, but it doesn't say you can't.

 

I am willing to bet I know why your District Commissioner changed his tune. the Key-3 looked at the Quality District requirements and said "Hey, we need more commissioners quick!" So a fast easy way to get commissioner numbers is to have the units recruit their own. Will it improve unit service? No, but it will get the Council Key-3 to Leave the District Key-3 alone.

 

To be honest Commissioner service is broken. It has been broken for decades. Councils know it, National knows it, units know it. The question is how to fix it. I have my own thoughts on that which I have shared with key individuals at National, but the division that controlled commissioner service was gutted recently, and there are a lot of people avoiding embracing the remnants of commissioning because things are such a mess. But thats a whole nother string I could go into.

 

Thanks for asking,

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[eisely]

It has been awhile since I was involved in rechartering, but if memory serves me correctly there is another position in the chartered organization of whom you should be aware. This is the "chartered organization head." This person actually signs the rechartering document each year. This person might be a catholic pastor, protestant minister, rabbi, elected president of a Rotary Club, etc., depending upon the nature of the chartered organization. This person could also serve as the COR, but does not need to do so. I hadn't thought about the possibility of multiple CORs if a CO sponsors more than one unit, but it makes sense that the COR has to be the same person in such situations. Otherwise that CO has multiple votes at the council level.

[Laurie]

I was just logging on to find out about this very subject. Our pack has a COR in name only, and when I asked who that person was, noone knew. So, when I ran the calendar dates by the CO today, I asked them. Seems they have no clue what a COR is. Here's the scoop: we have a troop with one number, a pack with a different number. Each is chartered through they same organization, a local church. Each has a different COR, but the troop know its COR (and he is not part of the church), but the pack has no clue how the name listed for our COR came about. Then there is a third name provided: the person who actually signs the charter, and that is the same for both the troop and the pack, but that person is not a COR for either. I was all excited about the possibility of us filling this position for real, but now I'm not sure what we are to do. Please advice. TIA!

[acco40]

Laurie,

 

A CO is an organization (Charter Organization) and not a person. A COR (Charter Organization Representative) represents the CO to the unit, duh! An IH (institutional head), is the "head honcho" of the CO. I doubt you were talking to the CO but possibly to the IH or some sort of governing body of that organization (vestry, committee, etc.).

 

Many, many CORs are "invisible", but like Bob says, only one represents the CO to Scouting. Good luck.

[Bob White]

The COR (Charter Organization Representative) is required to me a member of the Charter organization selected and approved by the IH (Institutional Head) of the CO (Chareter Organization).

 

They are also required to become a registered member of the BSA. the role of the COR is to be the communication representative between the CO and its scout units and between the CO and the District Committee.

 

Since this person represents the CO there is only one COR per CO. There can be no more and no less.

 

You could help your IH by identifying possible CORs from among your parents. But the final decision is with the IH.

 

You can find the specific responsibilities of the COR in the Troop Committee Guidebook

 

Hope this helps,

B:)b White

[Laurie]

Wow, to think I actually thought I had a handle on who's who--but don't. Time to hit the books again; they are never far away

 

acco40, I do know that the COR represents the CO. The devil's in the details; I should have said I spoke to the secretary of the CO today.

 

We do not have an IH. We have not, to my knowledge, had a COR for many many years. We also have not had a CC for many many years. In name only, but that doesnt' count except for recordkeeping purposes, and I for one won't fill out inaccurate records.

 

So...yes, I need to hit the books. But help me with some practical applications here using your experience. The DE is incredibly busy due to a merger and roundups, so getting hold of him is tough. The UC seems to have dropped off the face of the earth; we heard he went vacation, but he hasn't returned, and it's been a month--lol!

 

Since our troop does have a Scouter who is their COR, should we share him? I'd love to; he's a great guy who is very knowledgeable. Only drawback with him is that he lives an hour away and can't easily make meetings. And how does one get an IH? Does the church (our CO is a church) chose that person? In speaking with the secretary today, I now know who we can contact to alert them to this open position. But who should do this--I'm afraid I'm overstepping. However, I am not comfortable with us having positions left unfilled or filled by "unknowns". Our CC, just slightly newer to this than I am, feels the same way. Please advise--and yes, we will hit the books again too. And we are signing up for every training available--hoping that this year they actually take place. Sorry guys, but this is the frustrating part to me, and I thank you in advance for those practical helps.

[FScouter]

The scout unit does not select the Institutional Head (IH). The person that is the top dog or head honcho or whatever in your chartered organization is the person that Scouting refers to as the IH. If the church is the chartered organization, the IH may be the minister or the chairman of the administrative board, or whomever the church considers to be the head. For a community group, the IH might be the president, for a fraternal group, the supreme exhalted ruler.

 

Think of it this way: the chartered organization wants to use Scouting as part of its program for youth. Scouting grants a charter to that organization. The written agreement (Annual Charter Agreement) between Scouting and the chartered organization must be signed by the head of the chartered organization.

[Bob White]

I have recieved an e-mail suggesting that the requirement for the COR to be a member of the CO is something I invented. Actually you can find that in the Cub Leader Handbook, The Troop Committee Guide Book, The brochure Reponsibilities of the Charter Organization Representative and in the Council By-Laws because the COR is a voting member of the District they must be a member of the organization they represent.

 

B:)b White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Laurie]

FScouter, thank you very much! You gave a clear and simple explanation that helps a bunch.

[FScouter]

Think of the Chartered Organization Representative as the primary contact person or liason between the Troop or Pack adult leaders and the chartered organization. Your COR would be the ideal person to run your calendar dates by the church. It makes sense that BSA wants the COR to be a member of the chartered organization.

[ScoutNut]

Laurie -

Even though you say both you and the Troop are chartered thru your church, is it possible that you are chartered thru 2 different organizations IN your church? Say for instance St. Fred Youth Outreach and St Fred Men's Club? That might explain the different numbers and the different COR's.

 

 

[nldscout]

Both our Troop and Pack have the same CO, same number, same CC for both, but have a different COR listed on the CHarters. Its been like that for longer than I have been in the Organization and no one has said anything about it.

[dsteele]

The BSA requires one Chartered Organization Representative for each chartered organization. It is possible, as someone has pointed out, that different committees in the same church can be chartered organizations, but that's unusual.

 

The insitutional head of the church is probably the pastor, but could also be the head of whatever lay body "runs" the church.

 

There is a new (released in the last month or two) 10 minute Chartered Organization Representative Fast Start video that is outstanding. It is head and shoulders over the old chartered organization fast start that I used to threaten pastors with in the '80's. I'd say, so would you like to go over the agenda or are you going to make me put in the tape?

 

I think it would be proper for the DE in this case to show the video to the pastor and expaliain to her/him the need for filling the position. If the DE isn't available, try the Unit Commissioner. If the unit commissioner isn't available, then someone from the unit should borrow the tape and arrange a 30 minute meeting.

 

I'm sure that once someeone explains to the pastor that they can recruit someone for the job or do it themselves, there will be someone recruited swiftly.

 

DS