dangerous counselors

[Midnight 10]

Okay, I need some one elses opinion on this, because Im just not exactly sure of either policies or rules regarding this and I also would like to hear some wisdom from the elder people here. Im still young and still often slow. Ive been staffing camps since I was a Junior scout, and Im still not sure how I would fix this with knowing how to handle things like this.

This summer Ill be returning as a camp counselor to a local Girl Scout resident camp. I have found out that the old director has left and in her stead, two of the most irresponsible college students that Ive known for years are being put in charge. Dont get me wrong, I couldnt do the job myself, and I really cant judge in terms of the job itself. Rather, Im judging by their performance as camp counselors and unit counselors.

A little history on this issue These two ladies have wanted the position for years, and the old camp director has stuck around for over ten years longer than any other director weve ever had just so that they wouldnt get the job. Theyve broken very obvious rules in Girl Scouting and some unspoken rules as well.

I know I am simply a counselor, but Ive also seen the stunts these girls have pulled. They were my counselors as well when I was a kid, and I remember telling my parents about some of the happenings at camp and them not even believing me since the very idea of these things happening at camp were outrageous. These things included teaching the girls how to take a shot of liquor with a chaser (no liquor involved at camp, but still teaching it), how to approach guys properly to get some, how to light a fire with firecrackers and gasoline, and varies methods of strip dancing. Some of this may sound trivial, and I even remember as a camper, thinking this stuff was cool until I hit high school and realized how bad some of this stuff was.

On top of everything else, these two women have also crossed a few lines that are usually not brought up by GSUSA, and is considered to be a proud point of Girl Scouting since we have not made national news with discrepancies and issues surrounding it lesbians.

I have personally never had an issue with homosexuality. I myself have had and have known a few lesbian counselors. IT was never an issue though, because they never made it an issue. However, this is where things get stick with the soon-to-be camp directorsthey are lesbians, they are open about it, and the last few summers they have made a point to encourage girls to experiment if they were curious and that if the girls wanted help that maybe they could get help from the counselors. They didnt insist that the girls did this at camp, but the fact remains, they encouraged a sexual relationship and standpoint. Im trying to get info on sexuality in Girl Scouts and have come up empty handed so far.

Anyway, I fear for this summer at camp and dont know who else to go to since the council head is too busy to speak to me or bother replaying to my phone calls or e-mails.

I could use advice. Opinions are good, too.

 

Thanks

 

[Eamonn 61]

I don't know very much about Girl Scouts or Girl Guides.

But if I were you, I would give some serious thought to joining the BSA.

We may have our faults and some of our Camp Directors may be a little odd, but anyone like who you have described, would be "Run Out Of Town"

[SR540Beaver 116]

Climb the chain of command! If the council head won't give you the time of day, go up a step and all the way to national if you have to. Hopefully the girls have matured, but it doesn't sound like it. The council head can either deal with it now before issues arise or deal with it later after the damage is done. You may get labeled for "squealing", but you'd "squeal" to the police if you saw a guy holding up a bank wouldn't you? Sometimes doing the right thing is harder than looking the other way, but it is still the right thing! I don't know much about GS, but I can only assume that it's goal is much like BSA's in that it exists to raise good ethical women of character. Have you discussed it with your leaders?

[Midnight 10]

my leaders? If it's troop leaders you're referring to... Telling the leaders in this council will unfortunately help nothing. I don't know about other councils, but in the one's that I've worked for, Leaders have no say or representation where resident camp is concerned. Leaders take care of troops, Counselors take care of camps. (unlike BSA, the very existance of troops has little to no bearing on what goes on at Girl Scout camps - though I almost wish it did).(This message has been edited by Midnight)

[Twocubdad 665]

KWC is right on the money. I'd add that you have an obligation to report the situation to the proper GS officials. Someone, somewhere will listen.

[Midnight 10]

I have done everything short of marching into the main council office. And in my current status here at college, I lack a car and lack the means to get to the office otherwise I would have been there a month ago.

 

The way GSUSA runs things, If I were to go higher up, they would refer me or forward my material to the proper place where my worry/concern/complaint would be "heard" - the main council head (the one who won't respond to me as it is). So it would be just another circle.

 

One thing I had considered, and it would cost me my job this summer, is to bring it up to the camper's parents. This would violate the counselor contacting the camper outside of camp for any reason outside of correspondence rule. I don't want to do this. I need this job not to mention I love this job - but I don't want any of these girls to be either put into danger or have to learn material that they were never intended to learn though Girl Scouts.

 

Any more advice? Please?

 

[ScoutNut 147]

If the former director knew of these two why didn't she say something to the council executive? Why did she continue to hire them as summer counselors for all of these years? Has there ever been any complaints from girls or their parents about them? I would talk to the former camp director and see what the story is and if she can help.

 

If you get nowhere, and still have reservations about their conduct at camp, about the only option is to talk to the other counselors. Tell them that it might be a good idea to make sure that no girls are alone with camp staff at any time. Do not spread rumors, just make it sound like a general safety precaution. Then keep your eyes & ears open at camp. If any questionable behavior occurs, talk to the 2 directors immediatly and let them know that you will not stand for it.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Ms Midnight,

 

There is no reason you should have to go down this road alone. There has to have been more than a few other counselors who have witnessed the same behavior that you describe. Contact the camp staff for this year and from previous years and tell them of your concerns. These two must certainly have earned quite a reputation in the past and your fears would certainly gain credibility by having as many former employees back you up. Then either write, phone or make an appointment with the head of the council where this Camp is located. Dont go alone, have at least one other person who has seen the same things you have with you and take as many as can come. Present a letter detailing your groups observations with the signatures of as many former and present staff members as you can get.

 

Alone you could be seen as a rabble rouser or perhaps a malcontent, but with numbers you become the leader of a concerned group of people. The issues you cite are very serious and while it may take courage to face them, with support it can be done, good luck

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[gsmom 10]

Hi Midnight,

 

I am a Brownie leader.

 

The antics these women engaged in as counselors when you were a kid should have gotten them fired back then. As you said, they violate any number of rules.

 

The situation you describe as having happened over the "last few summers" is far more serious. GS does have a written policy regarding sexual orientation, it is basically a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Advocating any sexual preference is inappropriate and not permitted. However, enouraging experimentation and making themselves available (even outside of camp) goes beyond advocacy. What you describe sounds like child abuse and is a CRIME. Old Grey Eagle is giving you good advice. Get as much detail as you can in the form of witnesses, dates and specific behavior observed. Point out to the council that an abused child could go to the police, and that once that happened, matters would be out of their control. I think you will get results.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Midnight 10]

I have in fact approached the old camp director on the subject. She wont comment one way or another. I mentioned everything that I mentioned on my first post, and she did not want to pin this issue or make it public for the councils sake. I can understand these views to a point, but things still must be done about this situation.

 

I have been in contact with some of last years counselors who will be returning this summer. They know Im not trying to cause problems (Im not the most popular counselor at camp, but I do speak up when theres something wrong). Everyone is aware of the situation, but most dont want to mess the summer up and bringing a charge like this to light would probably bring about the closing of the camp for the summer. Ive seen it happen in other councils, and we would rather not make a federal case out of it (literally). What we had wanted done was to have the two counselors in question removed from heir posts and replaced without too much public hype. The problem with this is that the council wont act without current evidence.

 

And the issue with getting evidence is that all of the campers that I have witnessed think the world and more of these two counselors. Everything, no matter how questionable or dangerous has been viewed as cool and thereby, acceptable to the girls. And would have to agree with the girls, because I too thought the same until I grew up a little and saw what was going on. A few of the counselors suggested bringing a few of the old campers to the office and having the girls tell the council head what happened during their time at camp. Just questioning. But again, that would infringe on the rules of camper and counselor contact.

 

[SR540Beaver 116]

midnight,

 

The best way to handle it is to do what everyone here has said about following the chain of command from the local council on up. Do that first and try to involve others. You first duty over and above doing the counselor job you love and need is to the safety of the girls in camp. If "management" just won't listen (and they should be gone if they won't), as a last resort you can take your story to the media. The newspapers and TV stations lap this stuff up. When it is exposed to a large audience, changes have a way of taking place. But that would be a last resort.

[dsteele 20]

I'm not at all familiar with the policies of the GSUSA. I am, however, familiar with the general practices to prevent and report child abuse.

 

I think you have some serious concerns about these two counselors and I applaud that you have stuck to your guns throughout this thread.

 

The point you raised about these counselors teaching the girls "strip dancing" and "encourage girls to experiament" are both examples of child abuse, as has been pointed out.

 

I think it's time to contact the Department of Family and Children's Services, or child welfare, or even the police with jurisdiction over the physical location of the camp. Have as many of your observations and facts as you can. Most states do not require that you gather proof or eye-witness accounts. You're a college student, not a professional investigator.

 

Conacting the media might gather some attention, but it would also draw harm to the organization it's plain that you love. Go with DCFS or even the state police. They will conduct their own investigation.

 

Don't expect to get reports or updates from them. You will be making a "good faith" report (which will shield you) and they will do what they do confidentially.

 

I hope this helps.

 

DS

[SagerScout 10]

I second the advice to go to CPS, if you are quite sure that the council will not respond.

 

[scoutldr 732]

In some states, if you are a registered Scout leader, you may be a "mandatory reporter"...meaning if you have reason to suspect child abuse and do not report it, you may be guilty of a crime, as well. I think you need legal advice (I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV).....if you cannot afford one, look up "Legal Aid" in the phone book.

 

Be very, very careful about your allegations. State (verbally or in writing) only what you know to be facts through personal knowledge or observation. State only facts (on this date, this is what happened), not opinions, conclusions or moral judgments on your part. Passing on what you have heard from others is considered to be little more than gossip (hearsay) in a court of law and can leave you open to a slander suit.

 

DS had good advice...if your reporting is done to your local government Protective Service agency, your confidentiality will be protected...they will investigate and determine the facts for themselves, and at most, all you will get back from them is that your complaint was "founded" or "unfounded" (meaning they could or could not independently substantiate your perceptions).

 

Is NJScouter out there?

[dsteele 20]

Most states, if not all, have what's called "good faith reporting." You do not have to have proof of your allegations, only a belief that they are true.

 

DS