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I went to the District Committee meeting and next to the OA programs area it said vacant. I showed interest and the DE and CC talked for a sec and gave me an application in order to become the OA advisor. I know the old one and the OA advisor before that and get along well with both of them. So I emailed them to get some information.


The response was that the OA advisor position was not vacant. That he was still doing it. They both also said that its not the district committees place to appoint an OA advisor. They said

These positions are not appointed by a DE. There is a process that starts with an interview with the Lodge Adviser, we serve at his discretion.


I contacted the DE and the confusion was all over the fact that the committee assumed that he was no longer interested in the job since he had not shown up to the district committee meetings in the last 4 months.


The OA book about the appointing of OA advisors.

Each Chapter or lodge officer or committee chairman has an appointed advisor. Officers in the order are elected by the youth members, and the officers appoint committee chairmen. Advisers are appointed or approved by the scout executive, usually for the same term as the officers. The Scout Executive, as the lodge's Supreme chief of the fire, is the highest advisor in the lodge.


To me that means that the District Executive is the one that appoints advisors. Not that I want to take anybodys job away from them or cause any problems. Because I get along really well with everybody involved.


Im just curious how OA advisors are appointed in other areas because there seems to be some confusion here.

(This message has been edited by MoosetheItalianBlacksmith)

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"The Scout Executive, as the lodge's Supreme chief of the fire, is the highest advisor in the lodge."

The SE is the chief of the fire.

He is the "Top Dog"

He chooses the Lodge Advisor.

The Lodge Advisor is a volunteer.

Because the SE is or can be a very busy fellow he can also appoint a professional to be the professional to keep an eye on things.

Very often along with their District jobs, DE's are assigned to work with other Council Committees.

The Training Committee, The Advancement Committee and so on, in our Council all have a DE who sits in on the meetings and while most times doesn't do that much,but can be useful acting as a go between.


When it comes to the Lodge, Districts don't play any part in the Lodge.

So DE's really have no input as to what goes on.

I'm not certain how long a period the Lodge Advisor serves in our Lodge. I think it's 3 years.

The SE selects and appoints the Lodge Advisor. The selection is entirely up to the SE and other than membership in the BSA and the OA there are no requirements that need to be met.

The SE is free to pick anyone he or she likes.

The SE can ask or not ask others for their input.

DE's, the District Committee and even the Council Executive Board play no part in the selection.





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I don't have the SOP in front of me, but if memory serves BOTH the lodge adviser AND the district chair and/or DE have to sign off on the chapter advisor. However I've rarely seen this happen.


When I was first appointed CA, I had just come back from the UK, went to a council function, and was asked to be CA by the LA b/c the current CA was too darn busy and not doing the job right. BAd news was that I had to tell the old CA that I was his replacement. Good news was that he was planning on stepping down anyway. DE and district was not involved.


When I was a DE, my SE was ticked off at many adults in the OA b/c they wanted to know where the money the OA had been saving up for several years to pay for camp renovations for conclave went to, and wanted the DE's to pick replacements for the "anti-council advisers." I couldn't do it b/c I had no idea who could replace the CA and ACA (remember my DFS told me that "I don't need to play Indian," and I hadn't attended an OA event in months), but SE was taking over on that front.


When a new chapter was formed in one council, in reality re established since the council first merged the 2 districts then split them up about 2-3 years later when the merger did not work, and the DE appointed the key adult in getting the chapter restarted as CA. LA didn't know, and the district chair didn't know who was the CA and ACA, and asked us one time "you two show up at all the committee meetings, why don't you take a job on the committee?"


When I became a CA for the second time, the old CA came to me, asked me to do it, gave me everything, and it was essentially a done deal. LA found out abut it at an Ordeal, and the committee found out at a committee meeting.


In reviewing the procedures, I discovered that both the LA and the district need to be involved and approved. So I went to the LA with a list of folks I wanted to take my place, told the DE who removed one person from my list (he was going to be nominated for district chair) and I spent a few months finding a replacement.


So things do not always happen according to SOP.

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Just a reminder - OA Advisor is an adult - over 21 - position.


While we know how you feel about age requirements, this one can not be altered, or ignored.


In the OA you are still a youth member until 21.


BTW, just curious - With the OA being very much youth run, at all levels, if you are active in the OA, why did you never try for local/regional/national leadership positions?


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ScoutNut - Yes, even the District Exec & District Committee Chair paused when MIB latched on to it.. But in Sept MIB will be 21, so they figured that if he was interested, they were willing to wait.. Our District & the OA also pretty much go into hibernation during the Summer months (although I do think that they will go to camps to help setup tents & do some cleanup this spring.. MIB knew he could not officially take the position until 21.. But he was so excited about it, it did not stop him from jumping in and trying to get a handle on it..


Our District is having a hard time filling positions, with many open for months.. Others I haven't ever seen filled in the whole time I have been with the district (which is about a year..).. I guess they figured, having the position vacant with a known person ready to take the reins in the Fall, was better than having a vacant position..


But really I think the DE & DCC will now need to do some back peddling to fix a public relation snafu... Our old DE was known to take over the appointment of things the DCC should have control over and the committee & DCC was in a huge uprising over his mis-stepping his boundaries.. My first District meeting was quite a shock as a newbie in the middle of this uprising at its height. The DE was moved out of our district before my second District meeting.. Currently the DE & DCC (both new) have a great working relationship, but I think through the DCC the DE, may still be having his hands in where it should not be..


The way this replacement went down may start the uprising up again, but in some ways I think it is miscommunication.. Most likely the DCC does not know this is not appointed by the committee as the other positions are. I know the current CA and he is very unresponsive to getting a hold of.. He once said he would do a training for me, then I emailed and called and emailed and called.. No response.. I ended up replacing him, as I figured he didn't want to do it, and was just expecting me to take the hint by his non-responsiveness.. He did finally call me about a week before the training, lucky I replaced him, as he stated he didn't remember telling me he would do the training, and was busy that day..


When I took this job, I got a list of who my trainers where. From this list 50% of them never responded to my trying to contact them.. Therefore I crossed them off my list.. From my experience, I think a lot of volunteers simply abandon their job without the courtesy of telling someone so that they can make plans.. They just stop responding to your attempts to contact them.


Frankly, it will be best that MIB, step out of the middle of this fight, not take any sides, and stay friendly with all parties concerned.. By the time that happens, if there is an open position in the end, I think MIB will then be 21...


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In our Lodge, the Lodge Advisor usually chooses the CA. The District has no input. The term was usually for 3 years, longer if the interest is there.


The first time the CA position became available, I let the outgoing CA know that I was interested. I was not well known to him at the time and was passed over for a SM whose Troop was heavily involved in the Lodge. When he stepped down to move into an advisor position at the lodge level, it was passed to an ASM Vigil from another unit. This CA stepped down when he became SM.


I spent some time attending the Chapter meetings with my oldest son, getting to know the second CA well. My youngest ran for a Chapter officer position under the third CA. I offered to act as ACA helping him out. He informed me at a Winter Banquet that he was stepping down, dropping the hint. I'm not sure if he discussed the change with the LA or not, but there was not a problem with the transistion.


The original CA I think still had reservations about the change. But over the last three years, the Chapter has grown in attendance at meetings and events. We have had Chapter events, and restarted an Call-Out team.


Now the Council has merged Districts, meaning merged Chapters. We're now working with a large Chapter, over 300 members, comprising half of the Lodge's membership. Both of us CAs are working as Co-Advisors.


Give it time, and make sure they know your around and interested. Be there and helpful. Ask the current CA what you can do to help him out. Show up at LECs, Ordeals, Chapter meetings, etc. Your time will come


Good luck,


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Just to be clear, OA Lodges have SEVERAL advisers. (please note, in the OA, its 'adviser', not 'advisor').


There is the LODGE ADVISER. this is the top volunteer adviser, appointed by the SE with a year term. Depending on the council, there may be a limit to how many years.


There is the LODGE STAFF ADVISER. This is the top professional adviser, again, appointed by the SE. They advise the OA along with their other duties.


There may be 1-2 ASSOCIATE LODGE ADVISERs. These are volunteer advisers picked by the Lodge Adviser, whose term they match. They may be looked at as possible successors to the Lodge Adviser. Or not. (we recently got a new Lodge Adviser, and it wasn't the previous associate lodge adviser. Who stayed on as associate lodge adviser).


There are CHAPTER ADVISERs, one per chapter. I'm actually unclear as to who selects them. This should be layed out in the GOA.


There can be ASSOCIATE CHAPTER ADVISERs, as decided by the chapter adviser.


And there are a wide range of other lodge advisers, adults who advise certain youth leaders &/or committees. So you may have a Vigil Adviser, a Ceremonies Adviser, an LLD Adviser, etc etc. These people may serve for years and years, or not. They all serve at the will of the Lodge Adviser, and if a new Lodge Adviser comes in, may be kept or not.



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What Eamonn laid out in his post is essentially correct as to who does what in the lodge. In my case however when as a DE I was appointed as lodge staff adviser to the struggling lodge in my council the SE made it very clear to me he wanted no part in dealing with the OA in any manner. He said if the lodge could not be turned around in six months or less he was going to disband it. Well the lodge needed a new Adviser, new youth officers, and to finally hold elections and it all fell on me to get it done. The SE did approve the new lodge adviser on paper, the prior one had left over a year earlier, who was selected after much discussion with key volunteers and youth in all the council districts. In the end we all together got the lodge going again, stronger that it had ever been.


We had to cut a few corners/procedures in bringing this lodge back to life but in the end it flourished, for many years to come. The council six months later got a new SE who really loved the OA, and thought the lodge was one of the best organized he had ever seen, if only he had seen it less than a year prior. Bottom line,the hierarchial structure of the OA only works if everyone does their job.

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From page 8 of the Guide for Officers and Advisers (available for anyone to read at http://oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/GOA-2010.pdf):


"Chapter advisers and staff advisers are appointed annually by the Scout executive to support the purpose of the Order and give active leadership to that purpose."


In larger councils, the SE will probably delegate this to the lodge and staff advisers, hopefully with input from the district(s) involved.

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Okay now after talking to the DE I have found in our area the SE dispersed the OA advisor appointment roles to the DE's. SO the DE is in charge of finding and appointing OA advisors. But the old OA advisors still believe its done by the lodge.


It was decided that the current OA advisor will keep his job. He asked if I would like to be the District representative for the OA though (not sure as this is his job and he has an Assistant OA advisor to do it when he cant but Ill think about it).


I will never see the difference between Advisor and Adviser....Im just a small town country hick.





we know how you feel about age requirements, this one can not be altered, or ignored.


Okay that comment bugs me. Feels snarky. The DE and District Chair really didnt have an issue with it and were having me fill out an app right away. They just had to talk about it for a second.


But that comment also had absolutely nothing to do with my question and there for had no purpose being there.




With the OA being very much youth run, at all levels, if you are active in the OA, why did you never try for local/regional/national leadership positions?


Because I was very active before the OA in my district folded. Once they got it up and going again I couldnt really get back into the swing of things for a long time.


I also dont like being looked at as a kid. I very much prefer being out of youth roles all together. I go for the more challenging things and I work with adults. Thats where Im comfortable. I like being looked at as an equal not an underling or a youth. And most of the time I get that. Very rarely do I have an issue with that in any organization I go into. It just happens that that issue comes from 4 adults in my Troop.


Age is just a number it should not be a determining factor in deciding what I can and cannot do my skill level and maturity level and personality should be the determining factors.




Thank you to every one that answered and tryed to help clear up that confusion.(This message has been edited by MoosetheItalianBlacksmith)

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I know how you feel as a GASer (Gray Area Scouter,i.e. 18-21) 'cause I've been there and done that, but in all honesty I do feel that at 20 years of age, being a Chapter Adviser or Associate Chapter Adviser is inappropriate as you do have a much larger and more important role as a 20 year old in the OA: YOU ARE A YOUTH MEMBER CAPABLE OF VOTING AND WORKING THE SYSTEM TO GET THE THINGS YOU AND THE OTHER YOUTH WANT DONE! (caps for emphasis, Ok maybe a little shouting ;) )


As a YOUTH member, you should have more control of your chapter and lodge than the "Old Fogeys," those of us over 21. I know this varies from lodge to lodge, but the youth are suppose to run things, and we are to advise. So since you are a VOTING member of the OA, who have the power to suggest and help implement things, whereas us old fogeys are only suppose to advise.


But then again in a few months you too will be an "Old Fogey," at 21. And yes I know of 21 y.o. CAs, so it is allowed, but be prepared to face some "challenges" if you do become a CA or ACA at 21. Again been there, done that.


Good luck.

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