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Youth Protection Guidlines

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I have a mild confusion about the youth protection guidelines dealing with two-deep leadership. First off I will say that I recommend always a minimum of one leader and another adult be present at all meetings, which is where my confusion lies. The following are some examples of what I have confusion about and would like to know if they are against the rules.

 

1) Den meeting with only the den leader and 3+ boys present?

a) At a location where other den meetings are present?

b) At a location where no other meetings are being held?

2) Troop meeting with only the Scout Master plus 3+ boys present?

a) PLC meeting with only the PLC and Scout Master present?

 

The reason, I have this confusion is because I have heard that both of the above situation, or situations like them, are allowed/not allowed in different training sessions and even in different postings here on this forum.

 

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Two deep leadership is required in all these situations. The only "exception" is that a lone leader may meet with boys if they are in plain view of other adults. For example, if a den or PLC meeting is taking place in the corner of a larger room clearly visible to other adults, a single adult is okay. In this case two deep leadership is maintained by the other adults across the room.

 

Two deep leadership isn't a place to look for wiggle room. Anyone looking for loopholes is doing you and the boys a disservice.

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So, is the rule of 3 no longer a rule? OR was it never a rule, and was just a myth?

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The Rule of Three? Boy is that a myth. There are no exceptions to 2 deep that I know of, NONE!

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Minimum has always been two adults regardless of how many Cubs/Scouts were present and one must be a registered BSA leader.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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So, if I am driving to a campout, I must have 2 adults in the van?

 

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From the Guide to Safe Scouting in bold print:

 

"Two-deep leadership. Two registered adult leaders or one registered leader and a parent of a participant, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required on all trips and outings. The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities.

 

No one-on-one contact. One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted. In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmaster's conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths."

 

As you can see, it says that 2-deep leadership is needed for all trips & outings. It does not say anything, anywhere, about den or troop meetings.

 

Because of this, all of your examples would be within the guidelines of the G2SS, as long as there was no one-on-one at any time.

 

IMO, 2-deep leadership should be extended to den & troop meetings, but it is not REQUIRED by BSA.

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More from the G2SS, but NOT in bold print :

 

"A common departure site and a daily destination point are a must. If you cannot provide two adults for each vehicle, the minimum required is one adult and two or more youth members - never one on one."

 

So Dan, it's 2 adults or 1 adult and 2+ kids.

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This is the first that I heard it was called "rule of three"; however, I was taught that it applies in a one-on-one situation such as Scoutmaster's conference, Patrol Leader's conference, PLC, and such, as defined in G2SS:

 

"No one-on-one contact. One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted. In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmaster's conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths."

 

It was explained to me during our Scoutmaster's Basic Training that during merit badge counseling, the boy should attend the merit badge counselor with his buddy or with his parent and part of merit badge counseling guideline is that the counseling session should be conducted always in the presence of three or more.

 

However, for the boys' protection and yours, two-deep leadership should be the rule.

 

Others can correct me on this.

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This is why I posed this question. Here in this topic we have both interpretations that I have seen and heard both here and in training. For example this is from a recent post from Bob White in the topic Patrol Leader Council Meeting, "I need to point out that the PLC is a troop activity and as such the Youth Protection policies require two adults to be present." This seems to be in contradiction with the following posted by ScoutNut in the Denner & Assistant Denner topic, "Laura - Do you have a son in your den? Technicaly, the 2 deep leadership requirement is for all trips and outings, not for den meetings. The YP requirement that would apply would be "No one-on-one contact". As long as your son was there with you there was no need to send the Denner home with his parent for 15-30 minutes." It also seems to be in conflict the section that ScoutNut posted in this topic from the G2SS, "Two-deep leadership. Two registered adult leaders or one registered leader and a parent of a participant, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required on all trips and outings. The chartered organization is responsible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities.

No one-on-one contact. One-on-one contact between adults and youth members is not permitted. In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmaster's conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths."

 

So what is the correct interpretations. Again I want to state that I believe that a leader and another adult minimum should be present whenever possible at Den and Troop meetings, I just do not want a leader freaking because their assistant did not show and they are stuck at a den meeting alone at the last minute. I will also state that it is quite clear you need two-deep on all trips and outings, and that is outside of this discussion.

 

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>>"Two-deep leadership. Two registered adult leaders or one registered leader and a parent of a participant, one of whom must be 21 years of age or older, are required on all trips and outings.

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Just read the G2SS and follow it in every BSA thing you do. I take a copy with me to all BSA events/meeting/etc. for reference or to share with others.

 

It really is very simple.

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On two occasions, while couseling MBs for boys outside my Troop, they explained that they did not have a buddy who could meet me during times that were convenient for both of us. I have agreed to meet them in McDonald's in order to be in at least public view.

 

Does anyone have an opinion on this? I've always felt that I met the spirit of the law, but haven't been quite so comfortable that I met the letter.

 

Mark

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Actually, I meet all out of Troop boys at McDonald's or other resturaunts. But except in these two cases, there was always either a buddy, or I've brought along my son. Always figured him listening in would help him latter when he worked on the same badge. But after a while, that reasoning didn't convince him to keep coming.

 

Mark

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I believe that the "Rule of Three" or "Always Three" comes from Seminary practices. Basically the rule is that there are always three. I think that this phrase is not promoted in scouts as it becomes too confusing with the 2 deep leadership. But in application, it would cover the part in the G2SS concerning the scenerio where there were not 2 deep in a car driving to an event, so there would have to be one adult and at least 2 youth.

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