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Call-Out v. Tap-Out

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SR540Beaver

How can you even justify shoving an unsuspecting scout from behind and the having 2 other scouts drag him the way descibed as anything other than abuse is beyond my conception. This violates so many rules and standards of conduct its unbelievable that a lodge would still do this.

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nld,

 

I'm not justifying it. I've only been around Scouting long enough to see the call out. I have to say that it has been the most drab, dull and boring thing I've seen. Our call out is done at our spring Camporee. I was shocked because it went on forever and ever. They had to have called out at least 75 to 100 people. They were so thick that there was no room left down front and they were having to line them up the aisle. One could however assume that for a boy to be called out, he has been in Scouting long enough to have seen the ceremony and knows what to expect. He certainly does after the first person gets tapped. That doesn't make the activity right or acceptable, but I don't know that I'd say they would be unsuspecting.

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Seeing the "Pistons Fan" moniker and a description of the call out ceremony I'm guessing CVC and LLSR? I've seen their ceremony. Again, let's be reasonable. When we grab an elderly lady by the arm to help her across the street are we "dragging" her across the street? In the ceremony described, an individual is "designated" from behind by the ceremonialist and is ushered, one "helper" on each arm to the stage. I feel it is a good compromise between "mystique", safety and just enough "thrill" to make it a great ceremony. Just my two cents worth.

 

By the way, our Ordeal is not so mamby pamby as how Tamegonit Arrowman described his lodge. ;)

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Our lodge has two different ceremonies. I've only seen one. At Camp Liberty, the ceremony is breathtaking, from my understanding, though I've never seen it. The one I say, at the opposing camp (whose name escapes me. I keep recalling Freedom) was rather stiff. There was a 'tap out' but there was no physical contact between Allowat and the boys. My boyfriend, an arrowman, said at his ceremony, Allowat let him have it. ;) Sorta wish I had been there to see it.

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yeah - my Tap Out at Owasippe summer camp in the 1960's was grand. I didn't know, but had a pretty good idea...

The campfire was down at the beach. A fire was viewed out on the lake, and it drew closer. It was visitors with 3 canoes & torches. They landed, and then circled our campfire. As they circled, a telltale hand was placed over our head. They stopped, turned and pulled us out. Then tapped - it was AWESOME -

 

We had a Council "call out" at a local county fair grounds... You were invited to attend, so you knew - duh. The ceremonial team did a good job of telling the story, etc. They called your name from a list of about 150 - duh. You went down from the grandstand and stood in a huge circle around the fire...and then after all names were called, we all went home - duh. Real non-impressive. My son couldn't understand what the big deal was...

 

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Strawberry Switchblade,

If you liked the Liberty ceremony, you should have seen the way it was done 10 years ago! Fantastic! And you are correct. The other camp is named Freedom.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

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I vividly remember being tapped out way back around 1970 and if it wasn't for the way the ceremony was conducted, it would not be the special memory it is today. I still remember the ring of people standing in the mountains at night with the torch bearers walking behind us, and then turning to signify the nominee. I was then pushed down and had my forehead marked and dragged at a run to the center of the ring. Then the ordeal began and I would not have changed anything about the experience. Anyone complaining of these "tactics" are just whiners and have no business in scouting. This world has become the realm of mediocrity and I personally feel many scouts have missed out on a truly magical and valuable learning experience at the hands of the complainers in our midst. Sad, sad, sad. I would welcome back the old days in a heartbeat.

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I was tapped out in 1954 and it was a memorable ceremony. The OA Tap Out Team faced each Scout at the campfire circle and Allowat Sakima, the final member of the team, did the tap out. In later years, I had the pleasure of being Allowat Sakima and was advised to not tap with excessive force. I believe that Lodge Advisors can play a vital role in making certain that there is no hazing or gratuitous "violence" in doing the Tap Out.

 

I also believe that the Tap Out Ceremony is much more impressive and has a more lasting image than a Calling Out Ceremony. Let's not make Scouting so bland that it becomes boring!

 

Oh, yes, well-made, reasonably authentic looking outfits in the light of a campfire make for a breath-taking scene. Lately we made a determined effort to have good outfits and a well-prepared team for this ceremony. At a recent camporee you could hear a pin drop when the team came before the Scouts. Many, many SM's complimented us on our "new approach"--which was actually over 50 years old!

 

Wisumahi

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Kevin's was a Tap-Out and I am so glad. I have been at both and the Tap-out is much more impressive. The OA was dressed in full costume and several of the members were danced through the crowd. It had been worked out before that an adult would be sitting directly behind the person to be tapped with a certain cap on. As the leader called the name the OA member reached down and took the shoulder of the canidate and stated

"You Scout Come with me" At that point the OA member would guide the scout to the campfire. Much more impressive than simply reading the names and having them come up on their own.

 

It is much easier to do a Tap-out at a District event than at a council simply because there is a better chance that the boys will know each other.(This message has been edited by Lynda J)

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I do not believe in the hazing of canidates during the Ordeal, but that doesn't mean we have to restrict it so tightly that all the canidates can do is just sit and stare at eachother. I think a Call-Out is ridiculous. Tappping the canidates out brings a sort of awe to the adventure of the Order of the Arrow. It is the beginning stage of OA, why ruin it with lengthy regulations? I'm not for the "breaking of collar bones," as stated above in this thread, but a Tap-Out can be done with out the reported hazing, as they say. I think a well-done Tap-Out inspires young scouts to achieve their requirements and strive to be in OA. Just giving my two-cents worth.

 

 

--Colton

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I do not believe in the hazing of canidates during the Ordeal, but that doesn't mean we have to restrict it so tightly that all the canidates can do is just sit and stare at eachother. I think a Call-Out is ridiculous. Tappping the canidates out brings a sort of awe to the adventure of the Order of the Arrow. It is the beginning stage of OA, why ruin it with lengthy regulations? I'm not for the "breaking of collar bones," as stated above in this thread, but a Tap-Out can be done with out the reported hazing, as they say. I think a well-done Tap-Out inspires young scouts to achieve their requirements and strive to be in OA. Just giving my two-cents worth.

 

 

--Colton

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If the 'tap out' I saw was dull, a call out would have put me to sleep. ADD at it's finest.

And if you were elected for your Ordeal, your scoutmaster would hold your Ordeal sash above, yet behind, your head, so the OA member coming around would know who to pick out.

 

Though I distinctly remember having a great deal of the ceremony overrun by chatter. Definately not from the boys (who knew better), but from visitors. As someone who has a great respect for ceremony, I was annoyed to no end. I understand a little talking, but loud conversation is uncalled for in my mind. If I don't see next year's ceremony, I'll probably never see a Tap-Out again. Unless I get my son, if I have one, into scouts. Here's hoping.

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Ours were a call out/tap out combination at our spring district camporees. Guides dressed in costume would walk through camp gathering all of the units and leading them by torchlight and in silence to the ceremony location. Upon reaching the ceremony ring, the units would stand in a semi circle around three campfires - two campfires that were lit and a larger central fire that was not lit.

 

Once all the units were in place, the ceremony would start with the lighting of the central fire. There wasn't a set ceremony for lighting the fire - one year the ceremony location was along a river bank and the "four chiefs" (A, M, K, & N) holding lit torches came around a bend in the river in canoes paddled by "braves" - they converged on the central fire and lit it by placing and leaving their lit torches in the fire. One year a skilled archer started the fire by shooting a flaming arrow into the fire from a tree stand behind the audience (he practiced for two hours - and was very skilled - he bow hunted deer with his father). One year an electronics wiz created a little device to start spark starting the fire when a foot button was pushed by Mateo (after a little "mumbo-jumbo").

 

Once the fire was started, the audience was allowed to sit while the dance team performed a dance and while the legend of the Order was read ("In the beginning, in the dim ages...") - we weren't "supposed" to read the legend but no one ever stopped us. One year I was chosen to recite the legend, which I did from the top of a small mound of dirt (about 12(?) foot tall) with a torch bearing brave on either side of me - I found out later that it was much more impressive than we thought it was going to be because of "heat" lightning that was going on behind me.

 

After the preliminaries - Kichkinet and Nutiket would stand at one or the other of the two side fires alternately reading the names of the candidates, including troop number, from stretched leather "tablets" (paper was taped to the leather with the names - that way the tablets could be used from year to year). When the candidates name was called, they were to stand and take two steps forward. Braves, wearing ankle bells of course, and with a softly beating drum, would run to, and around the candidates, choosing one to escort to Allowat and Mateo. Once escorted to A & M (usually at a trot) Mateo would make a mark on the forehead of the candidate with a red greasepen, and Allowat would then tap the candidate out on the shoulder - using three taps. Taps were never to be very hard - they were just symbolic - though I will admit that when my youngest brother was tapped out, I happened to be Allowat and tapped him a little harder then the others.

 

The candidates were then escorted to one side of the ceremony ring to await their instructions/letters. We always tried to give the candidates their letters the night they were tapped out.

 

After the call out/tap out ceremony was completed, we publically recognized any member of the chapter that had been chosen for the Vigil Honor that year and would go through the ceremony that spring. The Vigil candidate would be called up by Allowat and his Brotherhood Sash would be removed and replaced on his shoulder arrow-side in (inside out). The year I was chapter chief (and therefore Allowat)was the year I was chosen for Vigil - we always tried to keep the mystique of the ceremony by not publically identifying the chiefs by anything other than K,N,M or A. To try to keep the mystique intact as much as possible when I was called out for Vigil, after I had turned the sash over for the other Vigil candidate in my chapter, Kichkinet and Nutiket came over and removed my headdress and Mateo called me out, reversing my sash - so that it wasn't Allowat being called out but me as the individual. Once my sash was reversed, K & N replaced my headdress and we completed the ceremony.

 

After this, the guides would lead the units back to their campsites and we would speak with the new Ordeal candidates - this was still done while in full costume - no one would break character until the candidates were led away by guides back to their units. the candidates would be told they shouldn't speak for the rest of the night so that they could reflect on the honor their peers had bestowed upon them. Technically another no-no but it was district/chapter tradition and was never abused.

 

Our call out/tap out ceremonies were always open to the "public" (mothers,sisters, etc.) if they wanted to make the trek out to the campground. One year we had a joint camporee with the Scouts and Webelos and the Webelos were invited to attend as well - As I recall, there were a lot more cross-overs that year than usual.

 

Calico

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