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Fat Old Guy

OA and adults

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FB

WEll like I said their choice was guided by length of name.

They had been my strongest chapter chiefs and we had a playfullness to our relationships.

Sounds like you have a better grasp of the language than I.

I've never worked on the translations before other than getting some feedback on the options we had for someone I knew.

W

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Sheesh,I'm responding without totally reading.So Anguished is

another translation for my name?Oh well the names allready registered.

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Wojauwe

 

The Indian name and the English translation have been registered but the definition of the acts is not registered. It has to do with who you are and what you do and how you act. The struggle was with the meaning and the lack of knowledge of the language. They got close and in most cases that is enough. The name will carry the rest of us over the edge of understanding. It was not hard to figure out from your name and a little prompting for those of us at a distance.

 

The first clue is that the VH committee meant to find a name to honor a person of great worth. The system of naming is not for the reverse in the OA.

 

FB

 

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Our Lodge uses languages other than Lenni Lenape. Sometimes it's a mix of multiple languages. Gives a lot more possibilities.

 

Selecting adults for Vigil can be hard if a cahpter does not have a representative on the VH committee. Right now each does. Most adults work hard, but may never be seen by many of the youth, so they don't know them when selections are made. We use pictures of each Brotherhood member so the committee has a face to match to a name. It has helped.

 

 

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For selecting names this year the process worked pretty well. We had a copy of the Lenape-English Dictionary and a the Deleware-English Dictionary. Do to linguistic differences between the two, we decided we should not mix and match words and definitions from the two. We consider the Lenape to be the best source, but it is a small book. The Deleware is much more comprehensive, so we had to switch to it for some names.

 

The first thing we did is come up with a list of traits or notable things about each person. We then selected a name in English and then looked up what that would be in Lenape. After checking to see what words were actually in the Lenape or Deleware, we would then sometimes revise the English to better fit with the Indian name. I should note it is not necessary for the name to translate perfectly. We will often take some small liberties in the translations, so long as the basic meaning is the same.

 

I must say that it would be best to use a single source for each name. In this way, the words within each name will be from the same time period and dialect. It would be unusual to, for example, mix something from a modern sorce on the Kiowa with an old source on the Soixe. However, to select one persons name using one source, and then select another persons name from another source, would be perfectly OK.

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I would discourage anyone from using any other language than the Lenni Lenape as requested by the BSA. It is not a choice that is presented but if a change is needed, I would suggest writing the Natioanl Office for permission.

 

FB

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Order of the Arrow Guide for Officers and Advisers (2002)

 

Choosing Vigil Honor Candidates (p31-32)

 

"4. Select an honorable American Indian name and its English equivalent for the candidate. Use the American Indian-English translations from the Lenni Lenape Word List found in the back of the Order of the Arrow Handbook or from another credible American Indian language text. The American Indian name should be selected in a serious manner, based upon each person's qualities, talents, or traits." (p. 32)

 

You will also notice on the Vigil Honor Petition that it asks for "The Indian name to be given". Further, on the Vigil Honor certificates, it is referred to as an "Indian" name.

 

Obviously the Deleware in general and the Lenni Lenape in particular were only one of many Indian groups with only one of many languages and dialects. There is no requirement that a name be selected from a particular language or dialect. It simply needs to be from a real Indian language, based upon a credible text. There are a variety of dictionaries of Indian words in a variety of languages that have been produced by reputable scholars over the years. Any of these sources is adaquate. If your lodge has close ties to a local Apache tribe and bases its regalia and dancing on that tribe, it would be perfectly appropriate to select names in Apache, if you can find a credible text on the Apache language to use as a reference for the translations.

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OAHB 89/89

page 121

4. Select an Indian name...from the Lenni Lenape word list.

 

The OAHB 89/98 does not have any information in it regarding naming.

 

Since your Advisors manual is after the 89/89 version, then you are correct and I am wrong. I will need a new and improved OAHB.

 

FB

 

(This message has been edited by Fuzzy Bear)

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AS an adult leade, scoutmaster at the time, I was selected to become an OA adult member. I went through the ordeal, became a member of the Pamala Lodge 211 in the Katahdin Area Council, Maine. Paid my dues, was available but never ever got called on. Two years later I had to move to Illinois due to Scott AFB Maine closing.

 

When I got to Illinois, I went to Okaw Valley Council and wanted to help. Not one local troop, council member, or anyone ever contacted me. I became di

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I've been asked about my interest in being the District OA Advisor. I've been out of scouts/OA for 30 years and am now back. I'm looking for a "job description." What do you other advisors do? (Or what should you be doing?)

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The District OA Advisor(actually the Chapter Advisor) is there to guide the youth of the chapter, similar to a Scoutmaster guiding the youth in a troop. There is a Chapter Chief, Vice-Chief, Secretary, Treasurer that are elected by the youth members.

The Chapter is essentially a small Lodge. They hold meetings, can have Chapter functions, raise money, etc. Then they become a part of the Lodge at the Executive Committee meetings and Lodge functions. Like Lodges at Conclaves.

The Chapter Advisor is there to guide the Chapter Chief in doing his job. Just like in some troops, the adult may have to do the job at times if the youth falls down on the job.

I have been a Chapter Advisor for 12 years. I have worked with 8 different Chapter Chiefs. Each has their own way of doing or not doing things. I have had to step in at times and get the job done, but most of the time I encourage, push, urge, whatever it takes to get the youth to do his job.

Each has been great to work with and I have enjoyed being an advisor.

There are training sessions at conclaves, NLS, NLATS, etc. for adults. The Guide for Officers and Advisors is the book. Know it and the OA Handbook. They contain your answers.

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Our SM was just tapped for OA. He is a great leader and the boys adore him. When the OA reps came to the troop for elections. They ask if any adults were eligible. The other two ASM and the CC all looked at each other. We were not aware that adults could be tapped out. As is happen there were 6 of our 8 CMs there. OA had the papers for the adults. They went to another room and filled out all the information and turned it in. We did not know if he was going to make it until the morning of tap outs. He was late getting to camp because of work and they wanted to make sure he would be there. Boy I would love to have had a picture of his face when they tapped him out. We had 4 boys and one adult. Pretty good for a troop of 16 boys.

I think that OA is even more boy run than the troop. I know our Lodge Advisor keeps a pretty tight handle on them but also gives them almost total control. My kido was also just tapped out. I have told the advisor I will do what I can to help.

 

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I just recently got re-involved in Scouting and ran into an all too familiar scenario.

 

We are located in one of the corners of our council, and I noticed on our lodge's website that there was supposed to be a chapter here. The other day I met the lodge adviser and asked him about it. He told me that the boys had tried putting together the chapters, but it just didn't work.

 

I suspect that it didn't work because adults weren't doing their job. I wonder if the adults had been out talking up chapters to the Scoutmasters so they could encourage their youth Arrowmen to be involved? It is a boy run organization, but it is an adult supported boy run organization. If the local unit leaders don't support the attempt, their boys probably won't be interested.

 

To me, the OA is the top of the Scouting program. It is the place where the lessons learned (Scouting is a game with a purpose) are extended out of the troop and into the scouting world at the district, council, section, and even national level. When your scouts top out on the leadership ladder, where can you take (note "take", not "send") them for advanced hands on training?

 

It is the job of every adult arrowman to promote the program and encourage and help their youth to take full advantage of the things that the OA has to offer them. This includes talking up OA activities (that don't conflict with troop activities), including the OA calendar in their yearly planning sessions (you DO have a yearly planning campout for your troop leadership, don't you?), setting the example by being involved at the chapter and/or lodge level whenever possible, and TAKING THEM WITH YOU.

 

And even if you can't contribute during the lodge or chapter meetings, you can do a lot of counseling on the way there and on the way home and even around a troop campfire.

 

It doesn't take much. I remember being involved in a do-nothing chapter with a chapter chief and adviser whose only activity was at the lodge level. I just mentioned to my Scouts who were either in the OA or were scheduled to go through their ordeal that fall that they had enough votes between them to decide who the next chief would be, and that perhaps they just might want to decide how to use that power. I didn't tell them who to vote for or even how to decide, I just suggested that they might want to think about their vote based on how they'd like to see the next year in the chapter work out.

 

The boy they picked was a brand new Ordeal member (NOT from our troop) who was elected chapter chief that year and lodge chief the next. That probably wouldn't have happened without that little nudge I gave them around that campfire that night (plus all the times I provided transportation to lodge executive board meetings and all the talks we had on the way and back).

 

It is the job (one of them anyway) of all adults in the Order to grow in the same way as boys do - we aren't that much different (ask our wives). It is also our job to instruct and help other younger adult Brothers in the Order in what we have been taught and learned. Therefore, Arrowmen involved in these forums are serving the Brotherhood, both learning and teaching.

 

 

 

Funny Story:

 

One of the boys in our troop involved in the discussion was the lodge ceremonies chief and I was his adviser. As such, we were at a lodge executive board meeting to plan the fall weekend. The lodge adviser was asking if anyone had any possible candidates for lodge chief. My scout informed him that they had plans to first fix the chapter so they couldn't help them this year. The chapter adviser suddenly becme very interested in the conversation. In fact, my boy stated, they had already decided who the chief was going to be. You could almost see the smoke coming out from under the chapter adviser's collar. Then came the final blow.

 

"So, can you tell us who you've picked?" asked the lodge adviser. True to form, my boy, with perfect timing, realized that he had said too much. "I don't think Mr. xxx (that was me) wants us to tell you."

 

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This is too good not to pass along about Vigil names. There is a retired fellow who donates a couple of days a week at our lodge office. This guy can tell some really great stories. Anyway, the English translation of his Vigil name is "Teller of Tell Tales". His take on his being given the name is because the Vigil Name Committee could not find the term "Used Car Salesman" in Lenape, Cherokee, or any other Native American language . . . .

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