Bill of Rights

[stevejb 10]

BILL OF RIGHTS OF THE USA

Amendment One

 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 

It seems to me the ACLU and other left wing radicals are trying to keep the BSA and other organizations like it from enjoying the rights granted it by the Bill of Rights.

 

1) True, the government cannot establish a religion, but neither can it prohibit its citizens from participating in one. We have the right to exercise our religious duties as to how we wish to practice them. Yet it seems that there is a small minority that is trying to abolish anything to do with religion in this country by using the court system. That is in direct conflict with our freedom of religion.

 

By using the courts to deny the BSA and other organizations from using "government" moneys, not only are they denying good programs from doing good works for their communities, good works that probably will not and could not be done by any government agency, but they are indirectly "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" which the Bill of Rights grants us as citizens. By giving organizations as the BSA funds to provide various programs the governments are NOT "promoting" one religious belief over another. They are providing funds to help the citizens of their communities and making use of an organization already in existence to do it, thus saving taxpayers a lot of money.

 

Up until this last generation the USA, state, and local governments have always worked closely with the BSA with very positive results. The BSA has not changed its policies during the last 90 plus years, but today's radicals are attempting to change this country to meet its own agenda, and thus change the very nature of what makes our society great.

 

2) It also seems to me that the ACLU and other left wing supporters are trying to restrict the BSA's right to "freedom of speech" and "the right of the people peaceably to assemble". These groups and supporters seem to be doing everything in their power to FORCE us (BSA supporters) to listen to their speech and deny us the freedom to voice ours. The BSA and any group in this country has the right to form its own groups, with its own requirements for membership. The BSA does not FORCE its membership requirements on anyone. People join it because they CHOOSE to join it. Anyone is free not to join the BSA if they do not agree with its policies.

 

The BSA troops, packs, and crews have the same right to use school and city facilities as any other group does, including gay groups or atheist groups. By denying the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts these facilities we begin a trend that could soon see no citizens using the facilities they have paid for through taxes. Anyone remember one of the reasons the colonies broke away from England in the first place?

 

3) I am somewhat frightened by the incident that has, and is, happening in the city of Philadelphia. A new city council can now create new laws that cancel former contracts that were made "in perpetuity". It seems to me that contracts made with cities are no longer valid for anyone, because the next city council can now choose to create a new law to discontinue any contract was made with previous councils. I was brought up to believe that a contact is always binding unless BOTH parties agree to cancel it. I guess that is not the case anymore.

 

Anyways, there is my two cents on the matter. I am so sick and tired of the BSA bashing that I see occurring around the country, and I am very surprised to see it happening within a forum for Scouting. I finally had to say something.

 

Go ahead now, and start bashing me. I know it is going to happen.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Well, if correcting your errors is "bashing," here it comes.

 

"Freedom of religion" does not mean the government has to finance your religion; in fact, the government can't finance religions. As the Everson case stated:

The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever from they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa.

 

 

As to your contention that the ACLU is "trying to abolish anything to do with religion in this country by using the court system. That is in direct conflict with our freedom of religion," I'll have to ask you for specific examples. Your one example of the government refusing to fund a discriminatory religious organization like the BSA doesn't cut it.

 

The BSA troops, packs, and crews have the same right to use school and city facilities as any other group does, including gay groups or atheist groups.

Correct.

 

By denying the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts these facilities we begin a trend that could soon see no citizens using the facilities they have paid for through taxes.

Where is this happening? Again, give specific examples. I don't know of any cases of the above, and the ACLU would almost certainly argue that everyone is entitled to use public facilities on the same terms, including the BSA.

 

A new city council can now create new laws that cancel former contracts that were made "in perpetuity"

The original contract has always had a one-year cancellation clause that either the city council or the BSA could exercise unilaterally to end the agreement after one year's notice. The city gave the BSA such notice several months ago, which is why the BSA can continue to occupy the building for another few months. The city council is following the original agreement as written.

 

I was brought up to believe that a contact is always binding unless BOTH parties agree to cancel it.

Or, as in this case, the contract has clauses on how one party can cancel the agreement.

[scoutingagain 20]

"By using the courts to deny the BSA and other organizations from using "government" moneys, not only are they denying good programs from doing good works for their communities, good works that probably will not and could not be done by any government agency, but they are indirectly "prohibiting the free exercise thereof" which the Bill of Rights grants us as citizens. By giving organizations as the BSA funds to provide various programs the governments are NOT "promoting" one religious belief over another. They are providing funds to help the citizens of their communities and making use of an organization already in existence to do it, thus saving taxpayers a lot of money."

 

OK based on this rationale, if we, as in we the people, believe it is in out best interests to have the government provide funding and assistance to private organizations because they do good work for those persons they feel worthy of membership in their organizations...what other organizations beyond the BSA are worthy of such support? If these cases were overturned, it would not just effect the BSA, all kinds of private organizations would be lining up at the trough of government for specialized treatment, grants, etc. because they also do "good work" and provide "good programs". How much should the Federal government increase taxes to add such an entitlement program for private organizations?

 

 

Talk about radical liberals

 

SA

[DanKroh 11]

stevejb,

 

If you truly do believe that the ACLU is trying to "abolish anything to do with religion in this country by using the court system", I suggest that you familiarize yourself with some of the cases they have brought to support freedom of religion "of Those Identifying Themselves as Christian" (these are only a few of the cases you can easily find by googling):

 

The ACLU of Florida (2007) argued in favor of the right of Christians to protest against a gay pride event held in the City of St. Petersburg. The City had proposed limiting opposition speech, including speech motivated by religious beliefs, to restricted "free speech zones." After receiving the ACLU's letter, the City revised its proposed ordinance.

www.aclufl.org/pdfs/StPeteLetter.pdf

www.tampabays10.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=57665

 

The ACLU of Oregon (2007) defended the right of students at a private religious school not to be pressured to violate their Sabbath day by playing in a state basketball tournament. The Oregon School Activities Association scheduled state tournament games on Saturdays, the recognized Sabbath of students and faculty of the Portland Adventist Academy. The ACLU argued that the school's team, having successfully made it to the tournament, should not be required to violate their religious beliefs in order to participate.

www.aclu-or.org/site/PageServer?pagename=Lit_tp_nak

www.aclu-or.org/site/DocServer/Lit_OSAA_mtgmry_3_07.pdf?docID=1861

 

The ACLU of West Virginia (2007) sued on behalf of a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon) university student who won a prestigious scholarship to West Virginia University. Although the state scholarship board provided leaves of absence for military, medical, and family reasons, it denied the ACLU's client a leave of absence to serve on a 2-year mission for his church. The ACLU filed a religious freedom claim in federal court.

www.aclu-wv.org/Newsroom/PressReleases/07_19_07.html

 

The ACLU of Wisconsin (2007) filed a friend-of-the-court brief arguing that individual pharmacists should be able to refuse to fill prescriptions that violate their religious scruples, provided that patients can obtain prescriptions from willing providers in a safe and timely manner.

www.aclu-wi.org/wisconsin/rights_of_women/ 20070201_Pharm_Refusal_amicus_complete.pdf

 

The ACLU of New Jersey (2007) defended the right of an elementary school student who was prohibited from singing "Awesome God" in a voluntary, after-school talent show for which students selected their own material. The ACLU submitted a friend-of-the-Court brief. After a favorable settlement was reached for the student, the federal lawsuit was dismissed.

www.aclu.org/religion/schools/25799prs20060605.html

 

[packsaddle 753]

Stevejb, "The BSA has not changed its policies during the last 90 plus years, but today's radicals are attempting to change this country to meet its own agenda, and thus change the very nature of what makes our society great."

 

I can't speak to all of BSA policy over the last 90 plus years but I CAN say with great certainty that just a few years ago, the application I signed said nothing about the DRP, etc. There was (and still is) no mention of BSA's policy towards gays. I suggest that there have been some important policy changes over the last 90 plus years.

[TheScout 10]

With all these problems one must wonder if Madison was right in believing that the federal constitution did not need a bill of rights.

[Hiromi 9]

The Boy Scouts are one of the bulwarks of our American Democracy (if one holds that a Democracys strength is dependent on the strength of the character of its voting populous) - and the ACLU is a creation of American Communists- Pappy

 

 

From "ACLU fulfilling communist agenda"

 

2008 WorldNetDaily.com

 

 

 

The ACLU was founded in the 1920s by Roger Baldwin and Crystal Eastman, described as a "progressive" and "the perfect feminist."

Earl Browder was general secretary of the Communist Party of the United States from 1930 through its dissolution in 1944. When the party was reconstituted as the Communist Political Association later that year, Browder was chosen as its president. Browder proudly proclaimed that the ACLU functioned as "a transmission belt" for the party. To deny the ACLU's founding was attached at the hip to communist organizations is to deny what can easily be proven as truth.

For the past few decades, the ACLU has been on a major crusade to destroy Christianity in America, promote filth under "freedom of speech and expression," and of course, vigorously defend the homosexual culture of death. On Jan. 10, 1963, Congressman Albert S. Herlong Jr., D-Fla., read a list of 45 communist goals into the Congressional Record. Below are the communist goals being implemented by the ACLU in their quest to destroy America's culture and traditions:

Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions, by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all form of artistic expression. An American communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings," substituting shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.

Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio and television.

Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural and healthy."

Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the grounds that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of "the big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the communists took over. Obliterating the American past, with its antecedents in principles of freedom, liberty and private ownership is a major goal of the communists then and now.

Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture ? education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

Anyone who has been following the destructive path of the ACLU can easily see how effective these communist goals have been implemented to "promote democracy" and protect your "civil rights." Lenin stated: "Communism alone is capable of providing really complete democracy." (See Tucker, "The Lenin Anthology"). James Madison, known as the "Father of the Constitution" had something different to say about a democracy:

Democracy is the most vile form of government ... democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention, have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property, and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.

Perhaps it's time to recognize the ACLU as the American Communist Lawyers Union instead of their disingenuous "civil rights" stage name.

No organization can exist without memberships and funding. It is inconceivable to me how anyone who claims to be a Christian, lawyer or layman, could belong to such an anti-American organization as the ACLU. Burn your card and get out. Organizations like Working Assets, tobacco companies and big corporations all donate to the ACLU, which in turn uses that money to buy the favors of those who serve in Congress ? who vote to unconstitutionally fund the activities of the ACLU under the Civil Rights Attorney's Fees Awards Act of 1976.

If Americans really want to put the ACLU out of business, remove yourself as a member of their organization, boycott companies that donate to them and demand these public servants in Congress repeal the unconstitutional funding of this subversive organization.

There is no justification under Art. 1, Sec. 8, to steal from the people's treasury to give money to the ACLU or any other organization for "civil rights" lawsuits. Your Congress critter will be in your district during the month of December? Make the most of it."

Devvy Kidd

 

[Spiney Norman 10]

Since we only need to cut and paste how about these:

 

One for the classist:

 

Beware of the leader, who strikes the war drum in order to transfer the citizens into patriotic glow, patriotism is indeed a double-sided sword. It makes the blood so boldly, like it constricts the intellect. And if the striking of the war drum reached a fiebrige height and the blood is cooking and hating, and the intellect is dismissed, the leader doesn't need to reject the citizens rights. The citizens, cought by anxiety and blinded through patriotism, will subordinate all their rights to the leader and this even with happy courage. Why do I know that? I know it, because this is, what I did. And I am Gajus Julius Csar.

 

Gaius Julius Caesar

 

A couple for the enlightened republican:

 

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.

Thomas Jefferson

 

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.

Thomas Jefferson

 

One for the lefty star trek types:

 

When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives.

Robert A. Heinlein

 

 

Perhaps youre a federalist:

 

 

If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.

James Madison

 

Theres lots more and while I dont let these dead guys do my thinking for me it sure is fun to stand on their shoulders.

 

Ken

[Hiromi 9]

Spiney- Cryptic - are those quotes for the edification of all of us or a select few?

 

- I would be careful of the soldiers you stand on. Cesar didn't write that quote- it is a fake - unless you know the document he wrote it in.

 

But Cesar did in fact say - "When the swords flash let no idea of love, piety, or even the face of your fathers move you."

 

 

"Never insult anyone by accident."---Robert A. Heinlein

 

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

George Orwell

 

And two juicy Madison quotes to match yours:

 

"I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations."

James Madison

 

 

"Liberty may be endangered by the abuses of liberty as well as by the abuses of power."

James Madison

 

And finally- one perhaps more germane to this thread-

 

"I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately, for the abolishing of the State itself ... I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal."

 

-- Roger Baldwin, ACLU FOunder