evmori Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 OK new thread! Now, using the scenerio in the other Invisible Scout thread, if the Scout who returns and wants to earn his Eagle tells you the absolute only reason he hasn't been around is because he didn't feel like it. He tells you it had nothing to do with the Troop or leadership or other Scouts, he just wasn't in the mood. Would this be considered showing Scout Spirit? Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Ed Your scenario tells us very little about the life of the boy and nothing about the quality of the troop or its leadership. For all we know the boy is a better scout than the Scoutmaster is. Maybe the scout was turned off by any number of things that could have happened. Maybe the SM did't trust scouts to be able to elect their own leaders. Maybe the troop committee and adult leaders created a barrage of artificial rules to run the troop. Maybe all they did was merit badge classes for troop meetings, or told scouts what merit badges they had to earn at camp. Maybe he saw scouts having to do meaningless chores as punishments instead of being lead to make decisions that developed character. Maybe the scout wanted the program that was in his handbook and wasn't getting it so he got dissappointed and quit. While gone from the troop he is a good student, volunteers at local charities, is an altar server at church, and a member of the student council. The only person who doesn't know what a good person he is is his old scoutmaster who is too busy running the troop to sit down with the scouts and learn who they are inside. Now he gets close to 18 and realizes that just because he wanted a real scouting program and wasn't getting one he shouldn't punish himself by missing an opportunity to recieve a recognition he deserved. So he goes back to the unit willing to put up with whatever program is there so that he can finish the requirements in the BSA handbook and receive the Eagle recognition. But we don't know that because the scoutmaster turns the boy away without asking about how he has lived his life according to the ideals of scouting while he was away. Why? Because all the scoutmaster is able to see is the scouts absenteeism and he puts attendance before character (dispite what the handbook says about Scout Spirit). So does the scout have scout spirit? Evidently not in your eyes. But I don't know until I have a chance to sit and talk to the scout and learn how he lives the oath an law in his everyday life (just like the handbook requires). Bob White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 If a scout earns Life, Does his project, earns his merit badges, fulfills his 6 months of leadership and gets Eagle, and then drops out of sight he is still an Eagle If the scout does all the above except one elective merit badge and comes back one day before his 18th birthday and does the basketry meritbadge to make his required total, he deserves to be Eagle. He did the prescribed requirements in the presribed time. I might not like it, Youngblood doesnt like it, but the rules be the rules. You cant add or subtract from them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungBlood Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Bob, I think Ed's question is close to what I was describing in my troop. We are talking about boys returning to troops very shortly before their 18 birthday for the sole purpose of finishing up last minutes badges and or their eagle project. These are also boys who left simply because scouting wasn't "cool" anymore and they wanted to spend more time with their friends. Well you know what, that is fine with me and I have no problem with it up untill they come back to cram for their eagle rank. For whatever reason you seem to think that this doesn't happen and that anybody who left scouting left for a noble or justified cause. I will tell you firsthand that this was not the case in my troop where I watched numerous boys return with 4 months left just to get their eagle badge. Doesn't seem right to me, maybe it does to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungBlood Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 I might not like it, Youngblood doesnt like it, but the rules be the rules. You cant add or subtract from them Yeah, you are right, I can't add to them and you can't add to them. However, BSA can add to them and I would like to think that our thoughts and ideas may have a little influence on what they decide!(This message has been edited by YoungBlood) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red feather Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Ditto OGE, if the scout has fulfilled the published requirements he has earned his Eagle. Not perfect, yes, but who in scouting is? Go with the flow and ensure that the scout gets as much out of the program as possible. Be a hand up if possible not a roadblock. Who knows whether or not that this might be the turn around point in a young mans life. I don't want to take the chance that it might be the thing that might turn them down a bad path. yis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9gold-scout Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 If your troop has a problen with a scout you need to fix it before he is a Life Scout. Once he has finished all the requirements, it is up to the district or council eagle review board. Now most of these scouters will be able to find out if the Lfe Scout is ready to become an Eagle. If he is rejected he can appeal but the next review board will not be any easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 excellent points OGE, Red Feather and k9gold. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted February 26, 2003 Author Share Posted February 26, 2003 OK what if there is no problem with your Troop & the kid was absent for a year and the only reason he gave was he didn't feel like coming to Scouts. You sit him down to talk to him & all he says is "I just didn't feel like coming to Scouts. Now I want to get my Eagle". All his requirements are completed except no one has signed off on his Scout Spirit. Does this Scout meet the Scout Spirit requirement? Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mk9750 Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Ed, Scout Spirit does not equal attendance. It means different things to different people, for certain. And that may include attendance. But there is no way a Scoutmaster or Board of Review can make attendance the sole component of Scout Spirit. If, as I think Bob White is most vehemently trying to point out, a Scout's life shows evidence of living by the Scout Oath and Law, these should easily out weigh a lack of attendance. I can see no reason that a boy in this case can be denied Eagle. If of course, his time away from the Troop was spent carousing, marauding, piliging and plundering, then it isn't his absence from Scouting that precludes him from Eagle, it is his Scout Spirit. But in either case, this can't be determined without a conversation between a open minded adult, and an equally open minded boy (basically an adult in your example, as he is close to 18). And I think that is what Bob White is trying to say (my apoligies to Bob for attempting to speak for him). Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted February 26, 2003 Author Share Posted February 26, 2003 Folks, I know attendance does not equal Scout Spirit and the situation I am refering to is 100 % hypothetical. What I want to know is if given the situation, would you sign off on Scout Spirit and why. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted February 26, 2003 Author Share Posted February 26, 2003 Folks, I know attendance does not equal Scout Spirit and the situation I am refering to is 100 % hypothetical. What I want to know is if given the situation, would you sign off on Scout Spirit and why. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 hypothetical YES For a scout to say he wasn't in the mood, should be a red flag that the program was not working for this scout. WHY All requirments have been meet, unless you could show me one that hasn't. Do you think if the scout went to the council or whoever has the final say, would they say no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted February 26, 2003 Author Share Posted February 26, 2003 dan, I wouldn't immediatly. I would see how he does after some time after his return. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 I am assuming that he has yet to do his service project and a few merit badges. I assumed, nothing to sign when he comes back. This scout would have a tough time recruiting scouts to help with the service project, at least in the troop I am with, which would/could/should be a great learning experience for him! The scoutmaster should try to guide him toward a service project that would require much help (hours) from within the troop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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