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Eamonn

"Duck It's Dick"

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In the delayed light of the news of Vice President Dick Cheneys accidental weekend shooting in Texas of a hunting companion, is it wise that the BSA goes ahead with plans to introduce a Hunting Merit Badge?

In a ongoing thread it was asked what guarantee can a COR offer to ensure the safety of the Scouts?

I have to wonder if the Vice President, who I'm sure has lots of guys wearing dark glasses and carrying weapons can accidentally shot someone, what chance does a MB Counselor have?

I'm pleased that Harry Whittington,is out of the hospital and seems to be doing well.

Eamonn.

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Eamonn, while relying on new reports is shaky at best, every story about the accident describes so many errors in judgement by the whole of the hunting party that this shouldnt be a problem. In fact, the description of the accident could be a scenario to ask what would you have done different.

 

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Let me first say I voted for the present administration twice. I like both gentlemen and I support their handling of the war that nobody seems to know we're fighting.

 

I don't think we scrap a program that shows kids how to safely hunt just because a leading figure was unsafe with a firearm. Mr. Cheney was supposed to know where all the people in his party were at all times.

 

Do we can driver ed. because Princess Diana was killed in a car wreck?

 

That is the same as disarming the whole populace just because two spoiled rich kids from Colorado killed a bunch of kids in school. Did anybody mention the prescription drugs all these kids are taking?

 

Or Scotland outlawing firearms because of Dunblane.

 

A 1960's radical drugged up trust fund baby said, "Why is it every time somebody holds up a bank with a gun they want to take guns away from people who didn't do it?"

The guy who said it was a real jerk, don't recall his name, but the statement has merit.

 

Congressman Sonny Bono and some Kennedy kid got killed skiing and we still have merit badges and even Cub Scout belt loops for skiing. A cub Scout can't shoot a BB gun except at Camp. I'll match the supervised skiing accident rate with the supervised BB gun injury rate up any day. There is no outcry to ban skiing.

 

There are enough people trying to insure the end of hunting, they are doing a great job at it too. If anything this incident should be highlighted or maybe even used as a bullet point for knowing where everyone in the party is. Especially prior to taking a shot at a flying quail.

 

He broke the safety rules, somebody paid with blod. He is paying by being ridiculed by the whole informed world.

 

 

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Uz,

 

I believe Eamonn's comments were tongue in cheek and not an endorsement for doing away with a merit badge.

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Tongue in cheek or night, I echo UZ's comments.

 

Can you just imagine his black suit guys hitting the dirt when he was bringing his gun to bear on target? I feel badly for his friend, but I seem to recall an article from yesterday that described another incident where one friend shot another friend in the elbow because he thought the friend's elbow peeking out from behind a tree was a squirrel...

 

Now more than ever, we need hunter safety courses to ensure safe hunting...

 

I couldn't stay awake last night, how well did Leno, Leterman and all other late night shows do lampooning Dick?

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By coincidence, last weekend we had out very first shooting campout. It was at a BSA camp with two rangemasters, one for rifle and one for shotgun. Those are both tough MBs and we had a half dozen Scouts qualify for each, with many partials. For several fellows, it was the very first time they had ever pulled a trigger. All the boys had a great time.

 

After returning to civilization, I heard about Cheney's hunting accident. Accidents can happen to anyone at any time. This will definitely become a SM minute next week.

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I have no love, and little respect for the current administration. I will be the first to stick a pin in Bush at the smallest convenience but this whole thing is ridiculous. The press is so worried about when the white house knew and why it took so long to inform the American public that even I must cry foul. Cheney screwed up, no argument, hes human we humans do that now and again. The man shot another human being by accident, the man was possibly a close friend, I really doubt that Vice President Cheney is anything except mortified and filled with utter remorse at this point. How would anyone of us fell if this had happened to us? Training doesnt eliminate error, this was an error, a momentary loss of focus. Did it affect his ability to serve as Vice President? No! Did it have any effect on the American public with the exception of Harry Whittington and the other members of the hunting party? No! Why, with everything that is going on today and the daily death toll in the Middle East, is the question of the day When did you find out and why didnt you tell us? Are we really at the point where the white house staff must prepare an hourly statement on if some one had gas or how many times they scratched their left ear? If there was some sort of cover up attempt or a denial on Vice President Cheneys part it would be another matter but as it stands I think the American publics right to know was never infringed upon but the common decency one human being is supposed to feel and show to another human being in a time of suffering is what is missing.

LongHaul

 

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Thanks LongHaul... you are right on.

 

ScoutnDad... did you hear about the new natural fragrance cologne Cheney is endorsing?

 

Its call 'Duck!'. ( Leno I think ).

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm with you LongHaul. As much as I distrust and usually dislike pretty much anything Cheney has to say, I also don't think this should be treated as a major crisis. But sensationalism sells.

 

In the meantime, imagine the possibilities. If Cheney is smart he can probably make a nice retirement income out of this, not that he needs it. Imagine, he can go on Oprah decrying his folly (related to this matter only...let's not get into politics here). Then a "hunting accident mea culpa" book tour. For the younger age groups, he could endorse a hunting themed "Where's Waldo" book. Heck, he could even do a spot in a hunter safety video for the bsa hunting mb.

 

Lisa'bob

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When you add this to the security breaches, I think this is the beginning of the end for Cheney. Look for him to resign during the next 4-6 months.

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Well I'm glad the victim sounds like he will be OK.

 

I tend to echo the sentiments of Longhaul. This incident is the least of my concerns related to the VP, althought I kind of suspected all along he was a little trigger happy.

 

However, I do wish to dispell the notion accidents can happen to anyone. Accidents occur when there is a, "momentary loss of focus" an individuals perform an act that results in injury or worse. When one is carrying a firearm capable of killing the person one cannot afford that moment. When one is in proximity to a person carrying a loaded firearm, one cannot afford that moment. It takes a concious effort to continuously focus attention on the fact that you are carrying a loaded weapon and not to shoot at anything you don't intend to hit or to know where you are in relation to others in your party.

 

I can't tell you how many accidents, injuries and fatalities occur because of a "momentary loss of focus" whether it's driving, working on a construction site, skiing, climbing or many other dangerous activities.

 

There are times one can relax their mind and not think about things for a while. It's Ok while sitting in front of the boob tube, on a beach with a cool drink or maybe around a campfire. It's not OK when you're carrying a weapon or have the lives of others in your hands(i.e. driving a carload of scouts).

 

I'm not saying that I or any of us don't experience those momentary lapses. I'm just saying this incident reminds us of the potential consequences of such a lapse and to make a concious effort to control them in our lives.

 

Sorry I'll get off my soap box for now. Although I am reminded that I read somewhere a disproportionate number of fatal hunting accidents involve spouses.

 

SA

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Scoutingagain, you wrote However, I do wish to dispel the notion that accidents can happen to anyone. I agree that we cant afford" to have a momentary loss of focus in certain situations but the fact that we do is why we call them accidents. Realistically they can happen to anyone. I dont think you are claiming never to have been involved in an accident. You probably never shot anyone unintentionally or maybe youve never been in an auto accident but no accidents of any kind? Harry Whittington was guilty,according to your reasoning of not knowing where Dick Cheney was or what VP Cheney had intentions of doing at the moment. Trying to remain aware of everyone and everything around you at the same instant would cause a loss of focus for most people. You cant watch every direction at every instant. You've got a guy with a gun on each side of you, who do you look at, not having eyes in the back of your head? It would be a grand site if every time a quail flushed the entire hunting party hit the deck. In this case Harry Whittington had an accident more so than VP Cheney. You can be the safest and most focused person on the planet and still get slammed by a drunk driver.

Spouses on hunting trips are fine as long as they are infront of you.

LongHaul

 

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Longhaul,

 

What I'm saying is most accidents can in fact be prevented. What it takes is a conscious commitment to make the effort to make it happen. I've worked in the construction safety field for over 20 years and have seen some projects that are literally disasters. Disabling injuries, loss of limb and fatalities.

 

On others, millions of hours of work are conducted under extremely hazardous conditions, including tunneling, nuclear decomissioning and demolition work, work at high elevation, etc. and no one opens the first aid kit.

 

The difference is the level of committment instilled in the workforce by management. In our case it's the level of commitment to safe scouting we instill in the scouts we serve. Safety, or the lack of accidents, is not a matter of luck or going through life thinking well, accidents happen and there's nothing I can do about it. There is nearly always something you can do. You can't control that drunk driver, but you can drive defensively, don't use a cell phone and always wear a seatbelt.

 

BTW, the No. 1 cause of fatalities of not-at-fault drivers is head on collisions with cars crossing over the middle line of a two lane road. Now that you know that, you can keep a closer eye on those oncoming cars. If you have to, your better off running off the road and hitting a stationary tree than the oncoming vehicle.

 

Stay safe and

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