When classes are out, religious clubs increasingly are in

[evmori 11]

I find it interesting that schools have pep rallies before sporting events where the focus can be the total destruction of the opposition but a flier can't go home that advocates the love of our Lord. Me thinks we is headed down a slippery slope that leads to destruction.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[ronvo 10]

I think it is ironically funny that the public school mentioned is named in honor of William Ellery Channing, who was an ordained minister, albeit a Unitarian, was also an abolitionist ( un-pc when slavery was thought of as part of God's plan and supported by the bible) who pleaded for humanitarianism and tolerance, and influenced many American authors, including Emerson and other transcendentalists. In his denunciations of war, his discussion of labor problems, and his views on education, he was ahead of his time.

 

(In part from http://education.yahoo.com/reference/encyclopedia/entry/ChanningWE)

 

While I do not deny that today people are ruder, meaner and less thoughtful of their fellow men and women, I do not think that lack of religion is the problem nor that more religion is the answer.

 

We need to just learn our manners and pass it on to our children. To respect others. I don't see that happening in chruches. But that is just my observation.

 

The destruction i think is coming due to our greed and self-centeredness. Both as individuals and a country.

 

pax,

Ronvo

 

[fgoodwin 23]

ronvo, you say people today are rude, mean, thoughtless, ill-mannered, disrespectful, greedy and self-centered.

 

Suppose there was a group that trained boys to be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.

 

Do you think such a group would be welcomed in public schools?

[Prairie_Scouter 10]

fgoodwin,

 

Sounds like a great idea. And I bet the volunteer leaders for such an organization would only have to set aside 1 hour per week, too

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

fgoodwin writes:

ronvo, you say people today are rude, mean, thoughtless, ill-mannered, disrespectful, greedy and self-centered.

 

Suppose there was a group that trained boys to be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.

 

Do you think such a group would be welcomed in public schools?

 

Ronvo, suppose that the above group excluded some kids based on their religious views - they rejected Jews, say, or Catholics, or atheists, or Hindus, for following the wrongs gods, or not following enough gods, or for following too many gods.

 

Do you think such a group would still be welcomed in public schools?

[evmori 11]

That's what I love about America! Freedom of choice! We can choose to join one group or another! If we don't like the politics or religious beliefs of one group, we can decide not to join! We aren't forced to take part in something that goes against our own individual values no matter how flawed those individual values are!

 

America - What a country!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

And not only that, government entities like public schools are prohibited from treating people differently based on their religious views, but some people still would like their discriminatory "private" club to exclude people based on just that, and still be run by public schools. But they don't understand the constitution.

[ronvo 10]

 

fgoodwin - I fully support the ideals of the the Scout Law and would support their being taught not only in the public school building but in the curriculum.

 

It would do wonders in our schools.

 

However I also think we need to accept the fact that this IS NOT a Christian Nation ( rather a nation mostly of christians)and that the powers that be should stop trying to promote Christianity through the Scouting program ( that part about just having to believe in something - anything is BS, and you and I both know it)

 

I do find that by discriminating against those who aren't "believers"

is not Scout like - As Scout is a friend to all - nor is it very Christian either - Love your enemy.

 

Would not this be a way for persons such a yourself to -

 

One do good by showing a boy how to live by the scout law

 

Secondly show a boy what a loving person a Christian can be and by such an example make a boy want what you have.

 

 

Ed - That IS one of the great things about America, but don't you think that a program such as the BSA that has become very much a part of this country should be open to ALL Americans?

 

I am not trying to bait anyone or start an argument. I am only wishing to discuss and debate in trying to figure out my own ideas about all this.

 

Yours in Scouting,

ronvo

 

 

 

 

[fgoodwin 23]

ronvo: I appreciate your comments.

 

I don't believe I said anything about pushing Christianity either in schools or in Scouting. In fact, the article I used to start this thread talks about a Jewish afterschool club.

 

As I said, what grabbed my attention were comments by two school principals who said they noticed that students in such clubs seem to be more courteous, cooperative, respectful, disciplined, less problematic and of better character. One of the two principals even said his school would be willing to do anything that reduced discipline problems and helped developed character.

 

I simply note that those are the very things we try to promote in Scouting. So it seems to me, Scouting would be a good fit for that principal's school. If a Jewish club can work and be accepted, seems like Scouting could, and should, also.

 

Where does Christianity enter into anything I've said so far?

[ronvo 10]

You didn't. I inferred it from some of the other posts.

 

And yes as I stated I fully agree with you that Scouting would be a good thing in schools. As the religious clubs success shows if you have a place where kids can talk about real issues, have adults listen to them, and thereby have them learn respect for others - not by being lectured to but through actual practice - kids will behave better.

 

The Jewish club as I understand it is only using the physical plant and is not sponsored or promoted by the school. I believe Merlyn's point was that the argument has been for schools to sponsor units.

 

The Jewish club obviously does not need a sponsor - the synagogue I guess would be the sponsor and the club a service of the synagogue.

 

What if someone were to start a unit "sponsored" by BSA itself and meet at a school. BSA outreach program. Or is that what the LFL is suppose to be. Is LFL a successful program?

 

ron

 

 

 

[fgoodwin 23]

School sponsorship should no longer be an issue. BSA has directed all councils to transfer any remaining charters from public schools to private entities.

 

I just thought it was intersting that even public school principals see the value of private clubs instilling character and discipline in its members, the public school students, not unlike what BSA tries to do.

[evmori 11]

ronvo,

The BSA is a private organization that has membership requirements just like any other private organization. If you don't meet the membership requirements, you can't be a member.

 

Merlyn,

What don't they understand about the Constitution?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[ronvo 10]

fgoodwin - sorry this thread has taken this turn - but it was inevitable. Anytime children can be taught character is a good thing.

Scouts is one of many though still too few organizations that does so.

 

Ed

 

You are correct, but that doesn't make it right.

 

Discrimination based on competency and ability is not the same a discrimination based on who you are ( ie color, race, creed, lack of creed, gender, sexual orientation)

 

It will change; just take some more time. Girls will be in the BSA at all levels ( name will probably be changed to Scouting USA or some such)

 

Homophobia will become a non-issue.

 

Not sure what to predict about Reverence. Redefined? Dropped? Replaced?

 

ron

[evmori 11]

ronvo,

Many private groups discriminate based on some criteria! You may not like it, but it's a fact. The BSA is being persecuted for doing what they are allowed to do by law.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

How is the BSA being 'persecuted', Ed? Threats to sue public schools that charter units?