WHEELER 10 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Ayn Rand wrote an essay titled, The Comprachicos in l970. What are Comprachicos? (or comprapequenos in Spanish) A nomadic group in the 17th century, Comprachicos went around buying children so they could purposely physically deform them in order to produce a freak so that they could make a living entertaining kings and city people, i.e. they were turned into court jesters. Miss Rand also quotes from Victor Hugo who relates a similar account in China (The Man Who Laughs). But in todays modern world, Ayn Rand sees comprachicos, not in the physical sense but of the mind. She discerns that her fellow professors at college are comprachicos of the mind. They are being taught, by implication, that there is no such thing as a firm, objective reality, which mans mind must learn to perceive correctly; that reality, is an indeterminate flux and can be anything the pack wants it to be; that truth and falsehood is determined by majority vote. And more: that knowledge is unnecessary and irrelevant, since the teachers views have no greater validity than the oratory of the dullest and most ignorant studentand, therefore, that reason, thinking, intelligence and education are of no importance or value. To the extent that a student absorbs these notions, what incentive would he have to continue his education and develop his mind? THE ANSWER MAY BE SEEN TODAY ON ANY COLLEGE CAMPUS. (Caps are mine. pg 211) Following this method, the teacher abstains from lecturing and merely presides at a free-for-all or bull session, while the students express their views on the subject under study, which they do not know and have come to school to learn. What these sessions produce in the minds of the students is an unbearable boredom. (pg 211) I picked up this book AFTER I left college disgusted. The above paragraph was typical of most the classes I took. How did Ayn Rand see my situation? In the absence of intellectual content, the students resort to personal attacks, practicing with impunity the old fallacy of ad hominem, substituting insults for argumentswith hooligan rudeness and four-letter words accepted as part of their freedom of speech. (pg 231) Her whole essay is a brilliant expose what IS going on in todays colleges and universities. (The New Left: The Anti-Industrial Revolution, Ayn Rand, Meridian Book, l975 pg 187f). What is going on at this message board is exactly what Ayn Rand observed. Opinions is what is shown but no knowledge. A sign of a learned man is his ability to quote to prove a point. These posters are all products of this educational system. One doesnt have to know anything just spout opinions. They want opinions but not knowledge. Look upon the attacks; they show the character of the men doing them. Knowledge is not important but just give us your opinion. That is all that is necessary. They attack people who quote because they know nothing better. This whole society is about glorifying people to spout their opinion. As Socrates says, Opinion errs while Knowledge is unerring. Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 " A sign of a learned man is his ability to quote to prove a point." Is that a quote? A learned man may be able to quote but an intelligent man proves his point with facts or conclusions based on observations. Quotations from Socrates and Plato are not facts, just opinions stated by men who died long ago. " This whole society is about glorifying people to spout their opinion." Evidently, you are seeking glory. Link to post Share on other sites
Be_Prepared 10 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 It is ironic that you picked this essay to quote from, since you "..left college disgusted." Ayn Rand concludes by stating: The educational establishment has to be foughtfrom bottom to top...from without and from within. This last is addressed to the many intelligent youths who are aware of the state of higher education and refuse to go to college or, having gone, drop out in revulsion. They are playing into the comprachicos' hands. If the better minds desert the universities, this country will reach a situation in which the incompetent and the second-rate will carry the official badge of the intellect and there will be no place for the first-rate and independent to function or even to hide. To preserve one's mind intact through a modern college education is a test of courage and endurance, but the battle is worth it and the stakes are the highest possible to man: the survival of reason. The time spent in college is not wasted, if one knows how to use the comprachicos against themselves: one learns in reverseby subjecting their theories to the most rigorously critical examination and discovering what is false and why, what is true, what are the answers. Link to post Share on other sites
firstpusk 10 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 "In the absence of intellectual content, the students resort to personal attacks, practicing with impunity the old fallacy of ad hominem, substituting insults for arguments..." It sounds more like Ayn Rand was talking about your posts. Considering her acid nature, I would deeply enjoy seeing a critique of your efforts on this board. Unfortuneately, she is long dead and can't argue about how her words have been used to (attempt to) support your half-baked ideas. Link to post Share on other sites
NJCubScouter 1389 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 So Wheeler, in other words, you think you and those who agree with you (if any) have "knowledge" and anybody who disagrees with you just have "opinions." Oh well, in this feeling you are not alone in this forum, just the most verbose about it at the moment. As for Ayn Rand, it is interesting that you would choose her to quote. She took the idea of "I have knowledge, everybody else has opinions" to a level of success that has seldom been matched. She built a whole "philosophy", sold millions of books, left behind a cult following, and is probably quoted hundreds of times every day, all based on the idea that what she (or her successors) believe is the absolute, objective, truth, while anything that contradicts her beliefs must be the product of mental illness. For another view of Ayn Rand, see http://www.2think.org/02_2_she.shtml I also found a bunch of reviews of a book called "The Cult of Ayn Rand," though for the actual book you apparently have to resort to that quaint, un-cool practice of actually going to a library or bookstore and getting it. Link to post Share on other sites
Twocubdad 665 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 "Opinions is (sic) what is shown but no knowledge. A sign of a learned man is his ability to quote to prove a point." I'd say you are half right. No one has spouted more opinion and less knowledge on this board than you. The second sentence of the above quote is as good an example of this as any. The ability to regurgitate the words of others is also a sign of a learned myna bird. In my opinion, the sign of a leaned person (yes, women are capable of this, too) is the ability to glean important information and ideas from others and develop their own coherent thoughts. As is so often the case for many of your posts I have to ask, what's your point? (The frequency with which this question is asked of you really should cause to re-evaluate your writings.) What reality do colleges need to be teaching? That of Socrates? Ayn Rand? God forbid, you? I don't recall any of my colleges classes revolving around the bull sessions you -- I mean Ayn Rand -- mention. (I do recall quite a few in the dorms and late night at the school newspaper office. This informal interaction among students is one of the great advantages of higher education.) But assuming these classroom sessions are the norm, isn't this exactly how Socrates would teach today? Although the formal, Socratic questions and answers may have been replaced by the less formal discussion, the heart of the Socratic method the process of formulating your own ideas, comparing and defending them against those of your teacher, the texts, and your peers. The rough-and-tumble of debate and questioning is the crucible where ideas are formed and purified. To accept, wholesale, any philosophy, religion or idea is the antithesis of the belief that "an unexamined life is not worth living." Link to post Share on other sites
WHEELER 10 Posted February 23, 2004 Author Share Posted February 23, 2004 Will somebody vote the original post 'thumbs down'. I'm losing my reputation if that doesn't happen. In answer to 'Be prepared', there was persection and injustice and in Christian ethics there are nine ways to be an accesory to sin. To participate any further in that school would have been sanctioning the things going on there and I could not do it. I voted with my feet. When you are not wanted, it is time to leave. Link to post Share on other sites
scoutmom 10 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 BYE! Link to post Share on other sites
firstpusk 10 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 "To participate any further in that school would have been sanctioning the things going on there and I could not do it. I voted with my feet. When you are not wanted, it is time to leave." I am certain that we are all going to miss you...we really are. Link to post Share on other sites
WHEELER 10 Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 Have any of you read the Federalist papers? Full of historical references to prove points. 98% of my books are in storage, but if I remember correctly on of the first 'papers' quoted the necessity of knowing history for it provided foresight. Thycidides did the same thing. For him, human nature never changes. same causes produce the same effects. Studying history provided foresight in the conduct of human affairs. In conjunction of the saying, "Know yourself", Plato's sixth rule is "for the ignorant to follow and for the wise men to take the lead and rule." I am ignorant and foolish. Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle are much wiser than me. They lead, I follow. Link to post Share on other sites
9Ankh 10 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 I am with Wheeler 100%. I could not add to the post made any more and expect to elaborate on the subject or shed any additional light and make the point any more clear. Of course, by pointing out Wheeler's quotes it would be an obvious and cheap stick at attempting to dismiss the importance of the observation. I often wonder just how many people are brainwashed into believing in opinions and misinformation. The facts are obvious, people. "You can lead a blind horse to water, but you cannot make him drink." Oh, I forgot; I quoted so everything I just said is null and void. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Welcome to the campfire, 9Ankh. Some of us rave and some of us rant, so welcome. In case you are considering following Wheeler's path, you should know that his tenure here was rather short. OGE or another forum member may be able to give you more info on what happened (I can't remember the details) but my sense was that many of us were relieved when he got the boot. Link to post Share on other sites
EagleInKY 14 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Wow! A painful deja vu moment there. Opened up a post and saw WHEELER at the top of it. 9Ankh, Don't worry, we won't hold you guilty by association. Wheeler came in and tried to turn the forum into a political/philosophical debating forum. After much urging to stop on his own, he was eventually squelched by the site owner. It wasn't any one thing he said, just the preponderence of these ridiculous subjects that had nothing to do with Scouting. And, that's why we're here. To discuss scouting topics, share ideas and get advice. I hope you enjoy your time here. Link to post Share on other sites
NJCubScouter 1389 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 ::Composing myself:: OK. I'm OK now. Whew. But it was nice to see Ayn Rand, that famous lunatic and cult leader, make a brief return to the forums. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 I seem to remember her as my high school assistant principal. No, maybe that was the daycare center... Link to post Share on other sites
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