BSA as a right-wing political organization?

[MarkNoel 10]

In light of the ongoing George W. Bush love-fest on another thread here, I thought I'd kick this news article out to see what everyone thought:

 

Personally, I don't think that BSA should be a partisan organization, and even if it was, it could choose better role models than Ann Coulter and Oliver North.

 

I mean, if BSA wants to consider any arbitrary gay person as being an inappropriate role model for the Scout Oath and Law, why should we put convicted felons on a pedestal?

 

YiS,

-Mark

 

-----------------------------

 

 

Atlanta Journal-Constitution

October 2, 2003

 

Vitriol sullies Boy Scouts' 'patriotic rally'

Jay Bookman, Assistant Editorial Page Editor

jbookman@ajc.com

 

"On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty, to God and my country ...."

 

Even today, many years later, those words from the Boy Scout pledge bring to mind camping trips and corny singalongs, troop meetings in dank church basements, summer camps and late-night whispering sessions in which we swapped dirty jokes that we didn't fully understand.

 

Much of the magic of boyhood, in other words.

 

Unfortunately, something's gone awry in the Boy Scout movement I knew and loved. Last weekend, I went to a Scout fund-raiser in Lilburn billed as a patriotic "rally for America." It certainly had all the trappings of such an event, from a row of American flags across the stage to prerecorded patriotic music and polite, fresh-faced Boy Scouts, draped in merit badges.

 

In reality, though, this was a strident political rally, run by and for the Boy Scouts, in which the beliefs, patriotism and moral decency of roughly half the American people were considered fair game. That wasn't a surprise, though -- not when the evening's star attractions were syndicated columnist Ann Coulter and Fox News star Oliver North.

 

"The cowards and quislings of the Democratic Party have been exposed as the Neville Chamberlain of their day," Coulter said, setting the tone with her discussion of Iraq. "That will be the historic legacy of the Democratic Party. Apparently they think that's worth a warm handshake by Susan Sarandon."

 

Such rhetoric is hardly noteworthy in today's culture, but what made it sting was the fact that it came at an official Boy Scout event, with the Boy Scout emblem displayed prominently behind Coulter. Sitting in the audience, surrounded by cheering adults, I couldn't help wonder how the sons of "cowards and quislings" could possibly feel welcomed in the Northeast Georgia Council of the Boy Scouts of America.

 

This wasn't Scouting as I knew it, and part of the change can no doubt be attributed to the gay-rights issue. The Boy Scouts today bans gays from membership or leadership, even to the point of kicking out gay Eagle Scouts with long records of service. That has made the organization a target of gay-rights groups, and the darling of conservatives.

 

Personally, I disagree strongly with that ban, but I also understand why it persists. Attitudes toward gays may have changed dramatically, but some institutions simply cannot adapt as quickly as others. Scouting, with its core in small-town America, was always going to be one of the last to make that change.

 

At the fund-raiser, Coulter addressed the issue with her usual tact, talking of gays as perverts wanting to lure little boys into the woods. North also noted that he found gay Americans "personally offensive." But North and Coulter had something else in common: They were curious choices for an organization that stresses the importance of truth-telling.

 

North, after all, gained celebrity status back in the '80s when, as a key player in the Iran-Contra conspiracy, he was found guilty of destruction and falsification of evidence, aiding and abetting the obstruction of Congress and accepting an illegal gratuity. Those felony convictions were later overturned only on the sort of legal technicality that conservatives claim to abhor.

 

To his credit, though, North kept political attacks to a minimum in his remarks. He talked movingly about his experiences covering the war in Iraq, and about the bravery, skill and commitment of U.S. troops in that struggle. He also retold the story of Todd Beamer, one of four passengers who led the attempt to retake Flight 93 from hijackers on Sept. 11.

 

The story of Flight 93 is indeed a tale of bravery and self-sacrifice, and it ought to be recounted around Scout campfires for generations. But someday, I hope it can be told honestly.

 

In his version, North did not mention the role played by Mark Bingham, a big, strapping rugby player from California who joined in the assault on the hijackers. Because Bingham, you see, was gay.

 

He was no less brave for that fact, no less patriotic and no less worthy of being honored and remembered. Someday, I hope, the Scouts will acknowledge that.

 

 

[SR540Beaver 116]

All I can offer is that while the intention was good, the execution was poor. What one council choses to do as a fund raiser is not a reflection on the whole BSA organization. While I have always had my qualms about North and his involvement in Iran/Contra, I could see him being a possible speaker. However, whatever fool invited Ann Coulter to speak should be shot. Whether you agree with her politics or not, you can not deny that her invective and rhetoric is NOT Scout like. I did some research thru Google on this rally and here are some sites you can review for yourself of what the speakers had to say.

 

http://www.gwinnettdailyonline.com/GDP/archive/article1DDFC18FD05A404EA28D48E96719FC8B.asp

 

http://www.nega-bsa-events.com/upcoming.php

[KoreaScouter 13]

I think you can consider BSA a right-wing political organization only if you also consider the Atlanta Journal-Constitution a left-wing political organization. Jay Bookman is well-known as being quite left of center (anti-school vouchers, anti-Bush, anti-WOT, anti-conservative, etc). So obviously, he doesn't like Ann Coulter, and would trash any organization that would have her as a speaker, even if it was the blue-haired old maids of the Daughters of the American Revolution (on reflection, certainly if it were the DAR). Coincidentally, or maybe not, most of the liberal media are also anti-BSA, because the organization represents the values they would like to see "go away". Did you notice his put-down of Scouting as a "small town America" thing, as if us rubes with our outdoor plumbing and bib overalls could never be as smart or sophisticated as his urbane, cosmopolitan self -- typical liberal condescension.

 

Now, I too have difficulty looking at Ollie North now, as a quasi-hero and media darling, without seeing the person who did such damage to the Reagan presidency and the credibility of the White House. I'm not a fan of his and wouldn't cross the street for a free ticket to hear him speak. But, to be fair, Coulter and North are national public figures, and everyone knows their motives and where they stand politically. However, Bookman's not a household name outside Atlanta. You either have to be familiar with him, or do a little digging to know where he sits on the political fence. Once you do, his motives become more clear, and one can better understand the context of his comments.

 

Don't take my word for it; do a Yahoo or Google search on Bookman and the AJC, and see for yourself.

 

As a parallel issue, I'd be interested in whether or not any Forum members were actually at this "rally" and can corroborate Bookman's description? Personally, something seems unusual here. Can any of your councils afford the appearance fees of an Ann Coulter and an Ollie North? A fund-raiser? With that kind of overhead? Or, if Fox arranged for them to do it gratis, then I want Bill O'Reilly and Terry Bradshaw at our next Roundtable.

 

KS

[SR540Beaver 116]

KS,

 

I hear what you are saying and agree with you. My question however is whether this is the kind of thing a BSA council should do for a fundraiser? Do we teach ethical behavior, patriotism and community service in Scouting? Of course we do. Do we allow Scouts to march in Parades? Of course we do. Do we allow Scouts to wear their uniforms and campaign for particular candidates? Absolutely not! While this rally was not a political campaign, it did push a certain political agenda and ideology. Sean Hannity had a "Freedom Concert" not long ago that featured some of the same speakers. It was also a concert with a number of country singers. I think this council could have had a patriotic program with maybe their governor and a few other state politicians from both parties plus some local or regional musical entertainment and raised a good amount of money. You can give a patriotic speech without taking the opportunity of bashing the opposing party. Since that is Coulter's whole claim to fame, she should have never been invited to speak. I would thing most reasonable people would know that having certain speakers will only invite criticism from certain quarters. Something the BSA doesn't really need more of. A patriotic rally can be held as a fundraiser and satisfy everyone if a little thought goes into it. I am not a diehard conservative or liberal. I'm more of an independent or centrist. If I were holding this rally, I wouldn't invite an Al Franken or an Ann Coulter without thinking I'm going to get flak from someone. Like I said, the intention was good, but the execution was bad.

[Twocubdad 665]

Is BSA a right-wing political organization? It wouldn't be fair to make that call on the basis of this one bone-headed fund raiser. When we see how national responds to it, I think you will have your answer.

 

 

[SR540Beaver 116]

Twocub,

 

I doubt we will hear anything out of national concerning this. However, I'm sure national and the council will have a little talk about it.

[acco40 95]

"North noted that even though the Boy Scouts are a non-partisan organization, it was clearly not evident by the speakers present Saturday evening."

 

Ollie got one thing right! I think that the Council utilized an "end justifies the means" approach to the fund raiser. It did raise a lot of $$$. Don't know if I agree, however.

 

[dsteele 20]

Sometimes, no matter how well briefed high profile speakers are, they agree to the discussion and then do what they want when they hit the podium. I don't know why the council recruited those two particular speakers -- and we don't know if there was a "no show" representing the more liberal side, which is possible.

 

I remember a Distinguished Citizens banquet the council I was serving had. It was days after the shootings at Columbine High School and they were very much on eveyone's mind. One honoree was very liberal and used the example as a reason for gun control. Another very high profile speaker is a died-in-the-wool conservative who is very much opposed to gun control. As much as we tried to get them to avoid the topic, we could only shake our heads and slap our heads when they took to the mic and debate broke out.

 

I'll agree that Ann Coulter can't be expected to be partisan nuetral, but have to admit that I do like looking at her

 

Also, the thread on President Bush should answer MarkNoel's question about this being a right-wing political organization. There sure are a lot of liberals active here -- and throughout Scouting.

 

DS

[LovetoCamp 9]

I think Annthrax is a hoot. Wish I could have attended. Ollie North. Fighting the spread of communism wherever it reared its ugly head. Great American.

[OutdoorThinker 10]

Becacuse I havent been a Boy Scout as long as I have been a Girl Scout I am unsure as to their official policy, but I know for a fact that Girl Scouts of the USA are nonpartisan. I feel very strongly that Boy Scouting should be nonpartisian. There was mentioning of right-wingedness of the Boy Scouting, but wouldnt you agree that LNT and the principles of ecological conservation are pretty liberal in thought? Just some food for thought.

[Bob White 20]

Not only should the BSA be non partisan, that is what the rules of the program state. It is a violation of the BSA uniform policy to wear the uniform in support of a specific political party or candidate. It is unfortunate and in opposition to the scouting ideals for a council to allow such a presentation if at a uniformed event sponsored by the council.

 

I do not feel unique in that I have never asked another scouter what their political leanings are nor has another scouter ever asked me. I use myself as an example because I cannot state for certain what others experiences have been.

 

Statistically I can tell you that when a Republican President is in office the membership in the BSA rises, and unlike at the last Democratic National Convention the Republican Party has never booed a group of Boy Scouts during a flag ceremony after inviting them as guests to their convention. And the only President to ever refuse to speak at the BSA's national Jamboree was Bill Clinton, a Democrat.

 

That being said I would never wear the uniform of the BSA in support of any poilitcal party.

 

So it has not been my experience that the BSA has chosen sides but that the Democratic Party may have. But isn't that what being partisan is all about?

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[eisely 13]

Ann Coulter is quite a bit over the top these days, and I would not have invited her as a speaker, even though she has some great insights and is very entertaining.

 

Ollie North is a more complex case. Technically he is not a felon since his convictions were overturned on appeal. Whether he did more harm than good while in the Reagan White House, I will leave others to debate. There is one lesser known story about him that bears repeating.

 

When he was a very junior officer in the Marines, and had completed a tour in Viet Nam, he learned that one of the sergeants who had served under him was being court martialed in Viet Nam over something. I forget the charges, but they were very serious. Against the advice of his superiors he managed to travel to Viet Name at his own expense and helped this sergeant win an acquittal. How many careerists in any organization would exhibit that sort of loyalty to a subordinate?

 

I was not in the marines, but there are many layers of meaning to Semper Fi.

[lasteagle83 10]

Just to give you folks some insight from a native Atlantan, the area in question (Lilburn, and much of Gwinnett county) is primarily conservative in its voting and views. One glance at the map that shows "Ronald Reagan Parkway" running THROUGH Lilburn gives you an idea of the political mindset. (Jimmy Carter Blvd is also in Gwinnett, but that's only because he was from our state, and that's another story altogether....)

 

In any event, I'm sure the event sponsors feel they had their hearts in the right place by asking such political celebrities to speak to inspire/impress/solict funds; as DSteele mentioned, sometimes speakers will go places they've been specifically asked not to go.

 

And yes, the Atlanta Urinal and Constipation does have a decidely liberal slant on many things, as it has for many, many years. I'm sure once it got wind of Ollie North at a BSA rally it was like a feeding frenzy to see who would cover it and be able to write their stereotypical bash-a-thon of whatever caught their fancy.

 

I'm sure, though, that this same type of event could have occurred in a different city, with liberal speakers and a conservative press, and had the same review in reverse.

 

Should the local council get some negative feedback in light of the inflammatory comments made, and the positioning of the BSA as ANY type of political organization (conservative or liberal)?

 

Absolutely.

 

[LovetoCamp 9]

Those speakers aren't running for any office or stumping for any candidates, where does partisan politics come into this? It doesn't. LNT doesn't belong to the liberals. No good conservative wants to go trekking and wind up lying his $400 REI goose down sleeping bag onto some kid's dirty diaper.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Pounder, I am not sure I remember history very well, but didnt Ollie North flat out lie to congress and his assitant Fawn Hall shred documents proving his perjury? Thats A great American?

 

There is no place for polictics in the BSA, a few partisan cracks at a Silver Beaver dinner completley turned my wife off to Boy Scouts and I live with those idiots cracks every day