The issue that never dies - now San Diego

[eisely 13]

Here we go again.

 

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City Council Readying For Scouts Controversy

 

San Diego City Council is set to decide Tuesday whether to extend the Boy Scouts' lease at Balboa Park, a decision made somewhat controversial by the organization's stance on gays and lesbians.

 

For more than 80 years, the prime location has cost the Boy Scouts next to nothing to lease, 10News reported. Now critics wants to see that deal brought to an end.

 

Camp Balboa has been home to the Scouts since 1948. In 1957, the organization signed a lease deal with the city costing just $1 a year for 50 years.

 

While the Scouts haven't had to fork over much for their lease, they have put nearly $5 million into its headquarters on the land, 10News reported.

 

With so much invested, the Scouts are looking to work out another long lease. But opponents want the group out of the city park.

 

"This is a matter of discrimination, as far as I'm concerned," said City Councilwoman Toni Atkins.

 

But last year the U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites) upheld the Boy Scouts' right to exclude gays because it is a private organization.

 

"We are certainly not about telling anyone what lifestyle they should choose," said Dan McAllister of the Boy Scouts of America. "We are certainly not about to say everyone needs to be a Boy Scout. After all, this is a world of choice."

 

Supporters of the Scouts also argue that the organization provides a service to the community.

 

"All of that outweighs any controversy a vocal minority makes over this issue," said City Councilman Jim Madaffer.

 

Critics of the Scouts don't necessarily argue with the group's contribution to society, but argue that because it is a private organization that discriminates against gays, it should not be allowed to operate from a public city park.

 

So far the City Council appears split on the issue, 10News reported.

 

If approved, the lease would this time include a $2,500 yearly administrative fee.

 

 

 

 

[FScouter 24]

Somewhere along the line, we did something to give a bad impression of Scouting to City Councilman Toni Atkins, who apparently wants the Scouts out. A good impression is something to strive for everytime we present our Scouts and our programs to the public.

 

 

 

 

[sctmom 11]

Even though I do not fully agree with BSA's policy on this issue, I support their right to it. I also think all the good things in Scouting outweigh this issue overall; otherwise I wouldn't be in Scouting. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater seems so extreme and such a shame. So many boys are being hurt by this approach.

[Dedicated Dad 10]

Critics of the Scouts don't necessarily argue with the group's contribution to society, but argue that because it is a private organization that discriminates against gays, it should not be allowed to operate from a public city park. I would argue that the BSAs stance on certain behavioral choices has not changed since these leases were originally established, and therefor have tenured standing and a priority of importance to retain the status quo.

 

Greatness is found when American character and American courage overcome American challenges. (GWB 8-3-00)

 

 

[eisely 13]

Access to public facilities in the face of local policy hostile to scouting's policy on homosexuality is a real threat. This issue was litigated in Broward County Florida successfully by BSA just this year and a federal judge ruled that the scouts could not be treated any differently than any other organization. The kind of lease at issue in San Diego is probably in a different class however. What we have seen throughout California is a willingness by some elected local officials, who believe strongly that scouting must be brought to heel on this issue, to do almost anything within their power to destroy scouting, if that is what it takes to make their point. Elected officials who may be neutral or friendly to scouting are often intimidated into going along. Sad but true.

[Dedicated Dad 10]

believe strongly that scouting must be brought to heel on this issue, to do almost anything within their power to destroy scoutingUnfortunately, you got this one right. Those who practice perversion desperately seek to justify their inequities as morally equivalent to man/woman relationships. Any roadblocks, like organizations that dont recognize the specious comparisons of their chosen behavior as equal and innate are the enemy. To allow any legitimate part of our society, to exist openly in opposition to their justification, is a target for destruction by any means necessary.

[eisely 13]

A follow up story from the Los Angeles Times. I had forgotten that the ACLU had gotten itself involved in this controversy. Also, the council member named in the previous article apparently is an out of the close lesbian pushing this issue. The scouts do have a lot of support in San Diego. On the whole San Diego is pretty conservative by California standards.

 

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Scouts' Use of San Diego Park at Issue

Government: The council will consider whether to renew the group's lease. Opponents say its ban on gays and atheists violates city law.

 

 

 

By KEN ELLINGWOOD, TIMES STAFF WRITER

 

 

The San Diego City Council today will consider whether to renew the long-standing lease of a section of Balboa Park to the Boy Scouts--a controversial arrangement that has been the target of a federal lawsuit by the ACLU.

 

Under the proposed 50-year lease, the Boy Scouts would retain use of a 16-acre chunk of the city's signature park occupied by the group since 1946. The council debate comes even as the ACLU challenges the legality of leasing public property to a group that bars gays and atheists.

 

The lease issue has attracted keen public interest, and officials were preparing for a big turnout at today's council session. But opponents of the renewal conceded they are likely to lose. "I am ever hopeful, but it doesn't look good. That's the reality," said Councilwoman Toni Atkins, the council's only openly gay member. Atkins said leasing to the Boy Scouts violates city policies barring bias on the basis of religion or sexual orientation.

 

"The city is violating its own policies. I don't know how we can do that," she said.

 

Mayor Dick Murphy, who supports renewal of the lease, favored moving ahead with the vote in spite of the ACLU lawsuit, filed in August 2000.

 

"There's no end in sight on when the lawsuit will be resolved," said Murphy's press secretary, Elena Cristiano. "If he timed things according to lawsuits, nothing would get done."

 

The current $1-a-year lease expires in 2007, but the Boy Scouts want early renewal to ensure tenancy before raising funds for a series of fix-ups on the eucalyptus-shaded parcel near the San Diego Zoo.

 

Under the proposed lease, the Boy Scouts would make at least $1.7 million in improvements during the next seven years.

 

The group also would pay a $2,500 administrative fee yearly, in addition to the $1 rent.

 

"In order to continue serving 25,000 kids, it's imperative that we have the lease renewed. To penalize the kids would be wrongheaded. It just wouldn't make good sense," said Dan McAllister, president of the Desert Pacific Council of the Boy Scouts, which covers San Diego and Imperial counties.

 

Councilman Byron Wear, who rose to Eagle Scout and has two sons in the Boy Scouts, said the group gives youths an alternative to gangs and drug abuse.

 

"The benefits that the Boy Scouts provide to our community far outweigh any negatives that have been brought forth," Wear said in a statement.

 

"The issue of sexual orientation and the Boy Scouts is one for the Supreme Court to decide, and not the City Council."

 

The ACLU lawsuit came after the U.S. Supreme Court, in a case filed by a gay Boy Scout leader in New Jersey, upheld the right of the group to exclude gays.

 

The court said the Scouts are a private group that is seeking to instill its moral values in boys and therefore free to bar those whose behavior or lifestyle clashes with its message.

 

The ACLU says the Boy Scouts cannot assert the right to discriminate while seeking support from city governments with laws that prohibit discriminatory groups from using public property.

 

The lease "makes the city a partner in the Boy Scouts' discrimination against gays and religious nonbelievers," said Dale Kelly Bankhead, spokeswoman for the ACLU's chapter in San Diego and Imperial counties. "While the Boy Scouts may not be for everybody, city parks are."

 

The City Council also will consider extending a separate 50-year lease governing the Girl Scouts' use of 15 acres in Balboa Park.

 

The ACLU says it does not oppose the $1-a-year lease because the Girl Scouts do not discriminate.

 

[Rooster7 11]

Apparently, George Orwell is alive and well. I am resisting the urge to comment on the San Diego debacle...And will continue to do so. You already know where I stand. Nevertheless, I cannot resist to comment on Mr. Dale Kelly Bankhead's reference to atheists as "religious nonbelievers". The liberal appetite for degrading the English language will never be satisfied. This is yet another tactic of the PC crowd, corrupt the language so it's no longer clear what is being said.

[Bob Russell 10]

I find the ACLU's position somewhat interesting. They support the Girl Scouts, because they do not discriminate! Funny, I think they are the GIRL Scouts for a reason, they take only girls. Just as the Boy Scouts take only boys (at least in the cub and boy scout programs). They appear to label some things as discrimination and other things apparently must be "targeted services" or some other excuse. What I find sad about the ACLU is that it once was a defender of civil liberties, as its name says. Civil liberties generally involve relationships between citizens and the State, meaning government in some form. The US Supreme Court ruled in favor of BSA precisely because of civil liberties, that the government could not interfere with the BSA's right of association, which is a fundamental civil liberty. Civil liberties are not involved with rights between private individuals, which is what we have here. I believe that if the ACLU was truly dedicated to their stated mission of defending civil liberties, it would side with BSA, not against it. Clearly the ACLU has now become a political organization rather than a civil liberties one.

[Dedicated Dad 10]

The lease "makes the city a partner in the Boy Scouts' discrimination against gays and religious nonbelievers," "While the Boy Scouts may not be for everybody, city parks are." Im not sure how the city becomes a partner in the conveyance of a lease agreement, doesnt it require having specified joint rights and responsibilities? Regardless of the BSAs position on homosexuality or any other organization for that matter, a lease is title to property and therefor restrictive to everybody other than the lessee (BSA). This is just one more attempt to assimilate behavior with race, religion, color, gender and national origin as an innate condition and therefor supercede the right to free association.

 

 

[sctmom 11]

I don't understand something in this. Are other people not able to go to the City Park because BSA is there?

Is the city going to pay BSA for all the improvements that they have made on this property? I guess the law may say you don't have to pay for the improvements, but would that not be a "civil" (no puns intended) thing to do?

 

[Dedicated Dad 10]

August 28, 2000

Today's lawsuit will be filed on behalf of two San Diego families, the Breens and the Barnes- Wallaces. The Breens are agnostics who are unsure of the existence of God and who do not participate in organized religion. They have a son, Maxwell, who is six years old. The Barnes-Wallaces are a same sex couple with a seven year old son, Mitchell. Both families are avid users of Balboa Park, except the portion of the park under Boy Scout control. Their sons would like to be Scouts, but cannot join. Max Breen would be unable to take the Boy Scout oath, which avows a reverence for God, and his family also objects to the Boy Scouts' homophobic policy. Mitchell Barnes-Wallace cannot join because his parents are lesbians, whom the Scouts consider morally unclean. Even if the boys were able to avoid taking the Scout oath or, in Mitchell's case, revealing his parents' sexual orientation, each time the boys participated in Scouting activities they would be reminded that their families are considered unfit by Boy Scout standards. The sad thing is that both boys would be allowed to join if they chose to live by the Scout Oath and Laws, its the parents who have the problem. What is to prevent the ACLU from filing suit on behalf of families who dont want their children to find virtue in thriftiness or keeping physically strong? BTW, I find it hard to believe that a policy can be homophobic, how can a policy be in denial of latent tendencies?

 

 

[eisely 13]

Balboa Park in San Diego is quite large. It is unusual for cities in this part of the US for its size and proximity to downtown. I don't know how big the park actually is. I didn't even know the scouts had a facility there until just recently. The park is the site of several museums and the, rightly, world famous San Diego Zoo. The idea that some peoples' enjoyment of the park is adversely impacted by leasing 16 acres to the scouts is another over reaching claim by those who would destroy scouting to satisfy their own personal agendas.

[eisely 13]

On Tuesday evening, December 4, the City Council of San Diego voted to renew the scouts' lease. See the story below from the San Diego Union Tribune. The claim that enjoyment of the park was somehow reduced by the scouts' presence was refuted in part by the fact that the scouts make the facility available to non-scout groups, including organized homosexual groups. In the meantime the ACLU chugs on.

 

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City renews Boy Scout lease

 

Opponents decry group's ban on gays, nonbelievers

 

By Ray Huard

UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

 

December 5, 2001

 

The Boy Scouts won an extension of their Balboa Park lease from the San Diego City Council yesterday, despite protests over the Scouts' policy of banning homosexuals and those who don't believe in God.

 

Mayor Dick Murphy said he opposed the Boy Scouts' policy on homosexuals but did not see that as reason enough to deny the organization continued use of Balboa Park.

 

"I support the Boy Scout lease because I am unwilling to punish 25,000 San Diego Boy Scouts by prohibiting them from using Balboa Park in order to send a protest to national Scout leaders in Texas," said Murphy, a former Scout. "That would be unfair to San Diego children and I will not do that."

 

Words fly in debate over lease

 

The Boy Scouts, headquartered in Dallas, have a national policy refusing to allow homosexuals or those who do not profess a belief in God to be Scouts or Scout leaders.

 

The Desert Pacific Council, which includes Scouts from San Diego and Imperial Counties, has no formal position on the national policy.

 

On a 6-3 vote, the council agreed to extend the Scouts' lease for 25 years, with a city option for 15 more years.

 

The Scouts had sought a 50-year renewal, but Councilman Scott Peters recommended the shorter term, saying it was in keeping with recommendations from a citizens committee on government efficiency.

 

Voting for the extension were Murphy, Peters, Byron Wear, George Stevens, Brian Maienschein and Jim Madaffer. Opposing it were Toni Atkins, Donna Frye and Ralph Inzunza Jr.

 

"I sometimes forget that civil rights enjoyed by some people aren't enjoyed by all," said Atkins, a lesbian. Later, she added, "Liberty and justice for all doesn't mean me tonight."

 

Frye said that by renewing the lease, the council was violating a city law and a council policy against discrimination.

 

"If we do not agree with the law, we have the ability to change it, but we must not ignore it," Frye said.

 

But city lawyers said municipal law and policy do not apply to Boy Scout membership policies but to the organization's use of city land. As long as the Scouts don't keep anyone from using the land they lease, they are within city law and policy, the lawyers said.

 

And Boy Scouts representatives said they make their compound available to a variety of nonprofit groups, including groups for lesbians and gay men.

 

Peters said he would ask the City Council at a later date to pass a resolution calling for the national Boy Scout organization to change its policy.

 

Murphy said he could support a call for lifting the ban on homosexuals but was not so sure about calling for a change in the policy prohibiting nonbelievers from being Scouts or Scout leaders.

 

The current 50-year lease on the 15.6 acres the Scouts have used for $1 a year was not due to expire until 2007, but the Scouts sought an early renewal to make it easier to raise money to improve the property.

 

"You need to be able to tell your donors you're going to be around for a while," said Matt Peterson, a lawyer for the Boy Scouts.

 

The new 25-year term will begin when the city manager and Scouts officials sign the deal.

 

Under the lease, the Scouts must spend $1.7 million over the next seven years to upgrade Camp Balboa, the name they have given the land they use. The Scouts also will begin paying the city an annual administrative fee initially set at $2,500.

 

A federal lawsuit is pending against the city by the American Civil Liberties Union, asking that the current lease with the Boy Scouts be canceled unless the Scouts eliminate their bans on gays and nonbelievers.

 

Assemblywoman Christine Kehoe, D-San Diego, and others urged the council to postpone a vote to give the Scouts time to change their policy.

 

By renewing the lease before the existing one expires, "You pre-empt what could be a very productive discussion the Scouts could have," said Kehoe, a former member of the City Council.

 

Peterson, the Scouts' lawyer, said the new lease renewal includes provisions allowing for early termination should the ACLU win its challenge.

 

More than 400 people attended the council hearing, which was moved from the City Administration Building to the adjacent Plaza Hall in anticipation of a large crowd. The hall has room for up to 800 people.

 

Dozens spoke passionately for and against the lease renewal, their remarks at times punctuated by applause and cheers.

 

"If you renew this lease, you send a message that all are not equal, all are not included, all are not welcome. And you will use taxpayers' money to do that," said Delores Jacob, interim director of the Lesbian & Gay Men's Community Center.

 

Herb Johnson, a Scout leader, said the policy banning gays "is untimely and it needs to be changed." But, he said, it would be unfair to punish the San Diego region's Scouts for a national policy.

 

"The truth of the matter is, you've got 25,000 kids at stake here. We can't penalize these 25,000 youngsters," Johnson said.

 

John Beck urged lease opponents to be patient until the policy is changed.

 

"In the meantime, let's work together with compassion and understanding and not create unproductive adversarial relationships," Beck said.

 

Anna Matthews, a member of the city's Human Relations Commission, said: "All residents are entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of city facilities or facilities."

 

She said the lease would deny that right to some.

 

Several former Scouts and Scout leaders joined those objecting to the lease renewal.

 

"This is no different than racism. It just has a different coat on it," said Scott McLaughlin, who identified himself as a former Eagle Scout.

 

Peterson said anyone can use Camp Balboa when it is not being used by the Boy Scouts. He said about "one in five" people who use the camp are not Boy Scouts. Peterson said the Scouts have invited a variety of groups to use the camp, including the ACLU and the Lesbian & Gay Men's Community Center.

 

But ACLU representative Dale Kelly Bankhead said that, as a practical matter, some people are excluded for the camp most of the time because of the Boy Scouts policy.

 

"Most of the time, it is only for those boys who the Boy Scouts feel are worthy," Bankhead said.

 

In a separate, unanimous vote, the council yesterday agreed to extend for 25 years the Girl Scouts' lease on 15 acres of Balboa Park land adjacent to the Boy Scout compound. That lease also has a 15-year city option.

 

The Girl Scouts have leased the land for $1 a year since 1955. Their current lease doesn't expire until 2005. But, like the Boy Scouts, the Girl Scouts want to begin raising money to improve the property.

 

Under the new lease, the Girl Scouts must spend $1.9 million over the first seven years of the new lease on improvements.

 

There was no objection to the renewing that lease because Girl Scouts do not ban homosexuals or nonbelievers.

 

 

 

[sctmom 11]

Definition of HOMOPHOBIC per Merriam-Webster's Dictionary:

irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.