Wood Badge Right Away or wait a bit...

[Beavah]

As I was readin' the WB benefits thread, I was thinkin' to myself "gee, I wonder what training he's done already". And then thinkin' some more "And what Scouting?"

 

I've always thought that Scouters got the most out of WB if they took it after doing all the leader specific training and spending 2-3 years serving as volunteers. Long enough to develop the practical experience with how to manage "day to day" Scouting and have that under their belt.

 

That way, when they go to Woodbadge, it's really the "next step up" to take their troop program to a new level. Otherwise, they don't really "hear" or understand/appreciate all the patrol method and youth leadership stuff because they're still workin' out all the day-to-day nuts and bolts.

 

I know WB is now being pushed earlier as part of the trainin' sequence. But what do yeh all think?

 

Beavah

 

[John-in-KC]

I took it about 3 years after I went active as a Troop level Scouter, and about 5 years of adult service overall (2 in Cubbing, then ...)

 

My concern is not so much "do you understand the Scouting system" for a prospective attendee as it is "Have you had that ah, S### moment in your life where YOU were the deer in someone else's headlights? It seems to me when you've had that moment, you learn real fast how to cooperate and rely on others strengths.

 

We had a transitional Scouter (not yet turned 21) in our Patrol. He'd not had his Ah, S### moment in life. We left him behind in the dust as we started solving problems. We weren't necessarily hierarchical "little democracy," our Patrol dynamic was more "collaborative to each other strengths, compensate to each others weaknesses." He just didn't understand that. He completed the coursework, but never finished his ticket.

[allangr1024]

I took Woodbadge after a year in the troop. My SM had taken it a few years earlier. I got involved when I brought my boy to the troop. I found that I liked taking a part in the troop instead of standing and gabbing with the other parents in the back of the building.

 

What Woodbadge gave me was a vision of how an "ideal" troop can be run. (This was the former Woodbadge program, not 21st century). We were patrol centered in that we camped seperately from everyone else as a patrol. I think they tried to balance us out as to our backgrounds, scout service, and personalities. We learned the patrol method from the inside, since we ate, slept, did activities, hiked, did games; all as a patrol.

 

When I got back to our troop, I saw all the ways the troop failed to do the stuff we did at Woodbadge. We had patrols and patrols leaders, but these often were just in name only. Patrols did not camp seperateley together in our troop, they only prepared patrol meals together. Patrol leaders did not make many decisions and had few responsibilities toward the patrol members.

 

It seemed as if the SM had forgotten the stuff he had seen.

 

I am committed to that vision I got for the Patrol Method, but it is hard to bring the troop to it. That will be my main goal as SM.

 

So, the benefit of Woodbadge for me as showing me an alternative to the way the troop was actually run. It also showed me that we have a pretty wide latitude in bringing the program to the scouts within the BSA guidelines.

 

 

[eolesen]

I was four years into being an ASM when I signed up, and I was glad to have that under my belt (along with my no-official-responsibility experience from Cubs and Webelos with my oldest son). Half of my patrol were freshly minted leaders who signed up for the first WB course that came up on the calendar after they'd joined Scouting. I'm sure they got a lot out of it, but it was pretty obvious that they were drinking from a firehose at a few points...

 

They also had a much harder time coming up with ticket ideas than those of us who had a few years of practical experience. So, while I'd never discourage someone from attending regardless of how long they'd been in Scouting, I don't go out of my way to advertise it when facilitating New Leader Essentials or talking with incoming Webelos parents...

 

Many of the participants in my course were in their first year as a leader. Anecdotally, that's pretty typical of courses in that council, and only about 60% of the participants actually get around to earning their beads.

 

I'd expect that the percentage of people getting their beads goes up in proportion to the number of years they've been involved with Scouting, so my advice to someone who asks about it will continue to be "wait until you're ready."

(This message has been edited by eolesen)

[Its Me]

 

 

I took it mid way through being a Bear den Leader. I think taking it as a Webelos 1 or 2 leader would be a very good time. It prepares you for what's ahead so when you get to a troop you have a good basis on how it should work.

 

Of course if you have Woodbadge and go to a troop that has no Woodbadgers and is a bit anti-woodbadge, then you will have problems.

[purcelce]

just do it

 

 

Cary P

Bobwhite

C-39-06

[hot_foot_eagle]

One of my patrol members was (is) new to scouting - really new. He got quite a bit out of the program. Having never been a part of scouting before, he learned how troops and patrols are supposed to function. Because he doesn't really know any other way for them to operate, he's on the right track for the rest of his scouting career.

 

On the other hand, he was baffled by some of the techniques, terms, etc., that most of us take for granted. A few people like my friend could attend WB with little or no experience and really benefit from it, but that's probably an exception and not a rule.

 

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

I went to WB the summer between my son's bear and webelos I years. It was good timing in many ways. If I had waited another year, then our pack would have gotten very little benefit from my training because I crossed over with my son. I think that's one reason WB is being pushed earlier - otherwise there's hardly a point in most cub leaders taking it. (Those who want to argue that cub leaders still ought to have their own, separate WB, please start your own thread.)

 

I agree w/ Its Me that taking WB at that point in time was a great way to really grasp the principles of the boy scout program. It was also an excellent opportunity for me personally to get to know lots of boy scout leaders which helped a lot with webelos-scout transition matters for our webelos guys. Four and a half years later, I can still see the shadow of my WB experience and ticket on how our former pack interacts with local troops, and I'd say that's a good thing.

 

But I also agree w/ hot-foot eagle that it can be daunting to those with limited prior knowledge of the boy scout program. For example, I had no idea what "Class B" meant. When informed that it meant a T shirt, I showed up to that session in my decidedly non-BSA tye dye. When then further informed that it should say BSA on it somewhere, I added a BSA sticker. They, ah, weren't sure what to do with me? (except, perhaps, smile and shake their heads). However, they did a better job of clarifying terms after that. On the plus side, while I learned a great deal about boy scouting from my patrol mates and TG, most of them were also decidedly uninformed (and misinformed) about the cubbing program (including a number of staffers, one of whom to this day insists that the "new" -aka- late 90s era cub beltloops do not exist) and I like to think some of them also benefited from my knowledge of that program. Among other things, it is hard to design a good first year scout program if you have no clue about how the webelos program works and what types of experiences those new boy scouts are likely to have had, or to be prepared for. And I do know my lack of familiarity with troop jargon caused at least one person to stop and think about how his troop didn't do a very good job of communicating with new troop parents and boys.

 

But yeah, I think there's a need to have at least some practical experience with scouter-ing in some level of the program (cubs, troops, crews, teams, ships, where ever) in order to make the most of the experience. And I am certain that I'd have gotten some very different things from WB if I had waited a few more years. Not necessarily better or worse, just different.

[Gonzo1]

I took it after about 4-5 years as an adult leader in a troop. I think Beavah is about right 2-3 years or so in a troop.

 

[Its Me]

 

So we all took at the right time and someone knows someone who may have taken too early. Common on! This is the best analysis we got on when to take Woodbadge?

 

I will say that taking it 3 years into a troop is too late. Three years of working with youths and your patterns will be too established to change. Woodbadge will have less effect. Besides at three years your kid is what 14-15? He is almost out and even less likely to change than you.

 

 

[Gonzo1]

It's just my opinion, but after 2-3, maybe a little more, that's about right.

 

I think taking WB while your first born son is still in tiger cubs is too early. Unless, you've been participating in scouts as an adult before any son was in cubs.

 

I think some people just want the beads.

 

[eolesen]

How long you've been in Scouting is just one consideration. If you have time to attend, but don't have the time finish a ticket, it's probably not the right time regardless how long you've been a Scouter.

 

Most newer leaders aren't able to judge how much of time commitment is involved until they've been immersed in Scouting for a while. That's why I commented earlier that beading rates are probably proportional to how long someone has been involved with Scouting before working their ticket.

 

Personally, it has been easier for me to work my ticket now that all of my kids are a little older, since any time I spend working on it means my wife is left to deal with the kids by herself.