moosetracker 132 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 LOL.. Like I said, unless they have paper Leaders, how they rechartered in mid-December is beyond me.. The CM is duel role of Den Leader for the Web II.. I would imagine they got the parents of the Wolf & Bear to say they were the DL's.. Not sure if they are doing a lone scout program or not, but if they are I guess that makes the parent the DL.. But absolutely no committee and you need 3 (one as CC).. The lady wanted her ticket to be about saving the pack, but since she was not CC or CM, they said those were not within the scope of her position as DL.. So she had to find a ticket for the scope of her position.. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 My thoughts. 1) Get more leaders. Talk to the parents and get them involved. A CS pack is ver leader intensive, even a small one. 2)Tell them where the resources are to get the pack running. Thankfully BSA doesn't say " Thank you for being a leader, bye bye." Training, resource books etc. 3)Help them come up with an ACTIVE schedule. Kids want camping, hiking, etc. 4) Communictaion. All the planning and work won't come together for success unless you communicate. 5)Find out history of unit/CO in regards to the community. The one time I did what MIB did, step in to help a pack out, it was as a DE chartered by my church. I stepped in b/c my Knights of Columbus council were the COs and I didn't want it to fail. Problem with the unit was a lack of parents at the church willign to be leaders, and a very strong anti-Catholic bias inthe area. Let's just say I got cursed out, had a letter pinned to my front door, and had parents taking their kids out of Scouting b/c Catholics were allowed to be Scouts. Needless to say I didn't think the unit warrented trying to resuscitate despite my involvment and the key folks holding it together moved out of town. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
moosetracker 132 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 OK, you religious historians can enlighten me on this. Where in the USA is there an anti-Catholic community?.. Everywhere I go that seems to be the #1 or #2 religious group of a community, even if a majority are non-active catholics. Then again, I was always surprised JFK was the first Catholic president.. Until recent closing of Catholic churches there always seemed to be 2 to 3 LARGE Catholic churches in the neighborhood to every 1 tiny protestant church, and a sprinkling (maybe 1 in a community of any other religions.) I know the Protestants were the first to come over on the Mayflower.. yadda, yadda.. But it seemed that at least before I was born, the Catholics out numbered the protestants.. Anyway I have never seen either of those religious getting the prejudice that Jewish, Muslims and other religions have had to face during their history (at least in the USA, I am sure it would be different if I went to a Middle East country.) Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutNut 147 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I would bet that the Troop shares it's Committee members, and CC, with the Pack on the Pack's charter. I would also bet that many of those are "in name" only. You said that you had your WB person redo her ticket to only reflect her den. With the CM leaving in 1-2 months, and her 6 families having one foot out the door, I would say that trying to improve the Pack would be a BIG benefit to her den as there will be NO Pack, and hence no den, if there is no CM. In fact, she has already taken a step to help her Pack - she got someone to take over as CM! I would think that, considering they are (or will be in a month or two) the only adults left in the Pack, encouraging the parents in her den to take training, get registered, and take on some Pack positions, would be great ticket items that would not only help strengthen her den, but the Pack as well. Encouraging a parent or two to take Webelos outdoor training, or even IOLS, would definitely help the den (and even possibly the Troop which also seems to be in trouble). Do any of the 4th grade Webelos have younger brothers that will be looking for a Pack in the near future? Those Webelos parents might be encouraged to help the Pack stay around for their other son(s). While her primary position is as a den leader, a den does not operate in a vacuum. Attempting to improve the Pack will also improve her den. Link to post Share on other sites
moosetracker 132 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 ScoutNut - I did not say that *I* had her reformat her ticket to be the scope of her position in the pack.. I said that *they* had her reformat her ticket to be the scope of her position in the pack.. After her ticket was approved and accepted that is when I was given her name to be one of my two WB people I am to support as they work their ticket. I did send off to the WB Grand Puba an email with a "heads up".. Saying we weren't at the point of needing him to intercept, but I did not want to get to that point and blind-side him with the issue.. At first when talking to her I thought that when the Webs II crossed over it only left her Den, so I jokingly said, "Well if your den is your whole pack, you could be cub Master and still organize them to cross over.. I am thinking that since most of the parents seem to sit at the meetings as blobs on chairs while their boys are doing their unit things, this might be a great time to do some weekly training activities with them, both cub scout & boy scout related.. Except for 2 boys all parents are soon to cross over to the troop and continue to be blobs on chairs if they don't also get to understand that Boy Scouts also need adult leaders but with a different ultimate goal of guiding, encouraging, supporting in order for the boys to not only dream big become successful at making their dreams come true.. One SM, usually does not make a dynamic and active troop.. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm confused. Why is this ticket thing so incredibly important? I keep reading about 'tickets' but mostly in that mysterious woodbadge/management theory forum. I thought this thread was about doing the best thing for the cubs. Link to post Share on other sites
moosetracker 132 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 The ticket thing just got muddled into the mess, because she probably would not have approached me about the situation, as the Training Chair, she more approached me about her worries for her pack and the effect it would have on her completion of the ticket.. Mind you I really don't think that that is numbero uno problem on her mind. It is just her way of trying every and all avenues for help... Her connection with me is her ticket.. So she starts out with her ticket and rolls around to her real worries. Had I been the Popcorn Chair, it would have started out with Popcorn and rolled around to her real worries. If she was in a functional troop though, her ticket is right on to help the boys. When you look at the fact that she has a good size den six active boys while the whole Pack is collapsing around them, you have to admit she must be doing something right for those boys to keep them strong and active and enthusiatic.. And if all her concern was about being a good DL, then a ticket to help her six slowly become knowledgeable of camping and other skills they need and learn how to work as a patrol would be a strong one for a Webs DL.. It is just that it seems kindof out of place, sort of like the band that kept on playing as the Titanic sank, taking them with it.. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 get more leaders????? Your kidding right? they have 8 boys after cross over total. They need more boys, with more boys follows more parents. This is a simple issue of recruitment and retention. Link to post Share on other sites
moosetracker 132 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 I would say both are needed.. With 8 boys come at least 8 parents if all parents were single.. After crossover they have one adult leader, and my son.. To recruit more boys the parents & boys coming in need to see a functional Pack, not a dysfunctional one.. Disfunctional does not scream fun, and disfunctional will have the incoming parents think real hard if they want to be a part of that mess.. So you have a vicious circle here, and really the first need is to get the current parents that are there off their duffs, because if they don't start working as a team to save their Pack, they are not going to have any luck in recruiting anyone who will save it for them.. (Accept my son, Who by the way, can be an idiot (although a lovable one)") If they can make the Pack functional then we can attract new members.. If they can not, I don't hold out for retaining anyone we attract more then one or two visits. Does anyone see it working better by dragging newbies in and then dumping the work on the newbies before they know what hit them?? Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Base, Sorry you're right. I was projecting my pack's problem last year, mea culpa. Moose, Actually the Spanish Catholics arrived in North America before the Protestant English did, October 1492 to be exact. Although the pagan Norse got here before the Spanish, and of course the Native Americans beat everyone to North America. . Seriously though, even though Maryland was founded as a Catholic refuge, Catholics have faced discrimination historically in the USA. Lots of problems when LA Purchase came about between the Catholic French and Spanish and the Protestant Americans (hence the reason why medians are stilled called "Neutral Grounds" in NO,LA today). If memory serves other areas that had large Catholic populations had challenges when they became part of the US. The largest waves of Catholic immigration to the US started with the 1840s Irish Potato Famine. Irish faced heavy discrimination along the East coast. One reason why they started moving west fast. They were followed by the Italians and Germans. As to why JFK was the first Catholic president, lots of distrust towards Catholics still was rampant in the the 1960s. It was a very big deal, possibly a bigger deal than Mitt Romney being Mormon, when he ran for president, as only one other Catholic had ever run before. Trust me I have seen the bias first hand. I've had that incident above. I've heard commentary on playgrounds, I've heard it talking to my neighbor, and I've seen the shock on people's faces when they find out I'm Catholic. Sometimes it's worth hearing the bigotry when you see that look of shock, but most of the time it's not. Link to post Share on other sites
moosetracker 132 Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Always knew about the Irish Catholic/Protestant skirmish. Seriously though, never heard of anything while I was growing up. I guess I grew up in the right areas, but you would have thought that with all the movies/books depicting conflict I would have run into a something using that as a backdrop for the storyline. The only thing I know was that JFK being the first Catholic President was a big thing sort of like the first black president.. I never knew what the big deal was over it though. Oh well, live & learn.(This message has been edited by moosetracker) Link to post Share on other sites
Tampa Turtle 1011 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I ran into some anti-Catholicism in the '80's when I lived in South Georgia. Seemed like everyone belonged to 1st Baptist or 1st Methodist in every town. Catholic church had maybe 200 folks in a county of 50,000. It was like being in a cult. Got challenged a lot. Well it was the bible belt where they burned the Beatles records. (The famous picture of the kid holding a beatles record in front of the fire was in Waycross.) The brother of my great grandfather was a Catholic Priest lynched in New York City in an anti-Catholic/anti-Irish riot. But I married a pretty Georgia Methodist and no I am are one! Go figure. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 While I knew about the anti-Catholic bias, I never encountered it until I moved to NC. One of the benefits of New Orleans is a very strong Catholic heritage: what other city would have 3 Catholic churches on the same intersection. Plus the parochial school system has 86 schools with 40,372 student, not all of whom are Catholic, you got a heavy Catholic influence. An aside, when my mom came and visited me the first time in NC and saw the church I attended, she was surprised at the size of it because, "it's smaller than the chapel at [my high school]. Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The Knights of Columbus was originally formed to help protect Catholic Priests and provide support to Catholic widows and families who had lost their fathers as in many communities Catholics were seen as subhuman and not derserving of help. It was not unknown for Catholic Priests to be assulted and insulted and Catholics to be barred from work. Alfred E Smith was a governor of New York and Presidential candidate, the first Catholic Presidential Candidate, a Democrat, in 1928 and the Democratic southern voters, the "Solid South" of Democrats, Florida, North Carolina, Texas, Virginia, Kentucky and Tennessee all voted for Republican Herbert Hoover rather for that catholic. He fought religious bias ever step of the campaign. JFK was vilified as a "Papist", it was claimed in printed material, that I have read, that as a Roman Catholic JFK's first allegiance was to Rome and he would do whatever the Pope told hin to do. Electing JFK would actually make the Pope the de facto president of the US. Or so it was claimed. It wasnt all that long ago being Catholic was not accepted in High Society Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 And religious persecution is not limited to Catholics certainly, back a few years Sen Joseph Lieberman took a brief run at the presidency and actually had to answer questions on if he would "work" on Saturday (The Sabbath)He had to answer if a decision was needed on Saturday, would he make it or delegate it to aomeone else. Who thinks of this crape? We have to attack a a candidates culture or relgious background because we can't find a flaw in his politics or policies? Link to post Share on other sites
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