will Tigers be fully integrated in 2010?

[MNBob]

My oldest son is a second year Webelos Scout nearing cross over. When he joined as a Tiger in 2005 Tigers were still "the year before Cub Scouts". He earned his Tiger badge before his Bobcat badge. The following year the handbook changed and Tigers earned their Bobcat first and Tigers became the first year of Cub Scouting. I only found that out because I remember being surprised when the new Tigers earned their Bobcat before our Wolf den.

 

Yet even with this change almost everything I've seen still treats Tigers as outside of Cub Scouts. Our online Council advancement system still only records ranks starting with Bobcat and followed by Wolf, Bear, Webelos, Arrow of Light. Considering the Northern Star council is currently piloting a new Lions (kindergarten) program I'd hope the rest of Cub Scouts would catch up with the fact that the Tiger rank has replaced Wolf as the first official year. Hopefully the new Cub Scouts 2010 (http://www.scouting.org/CubScouts2010.aspx) program will be the start of this.(This message has been edited by MNBob)

[Eagle92]

Somehow your council is messing up if they are NOT recording TC as a rank becasue TCs are FULLY integrated. It is no longer the 'year before," They no longer "graduate" into Cubs, they wear blue unfiorm like everyone else in the pack, etc etc.

 

The only thing I wish they would change is the name, simplifying it TIGERS. After all We don't call Wolves "Wolf Cubs", Bears "Bear Cub" or Webelos " Webelos Cubs."

 

 

Also FAST TRAX and PROGRAM HELPS have already made the transition.

[ScoutNut]

Tiger Cub Scouts ARE fully integrated into Cub Scouting.

 

Tigers are listed separately because, like Webelos, they have a completely different, age appropriate, program from the Cub Scout level programs of Wolf and Bear.

 

I have never used the online advancement, so I can not comment on how up to date BSA is on that. Since the AOL is the only Cub award that really needs to be recorded correctly at the council level, we never felt it necessary to deal with the online thing.

 

 

[MNBob]

I realize they are integrated. But I find that lots of information online has not caught up with the changes. I suppose most of what I'm talking about is not BSA official (ceremony ideas and such). And most likely my Council hasn't yet allocated money to fix the internet advancement system.

[DeanRx]

Lions = Kindergarden - oh YEAH !!! Its hard enough to plan program that meets the needs of 6 y/o to 5th graders, now we get to try and scoop the 1/2 day school kids into the program.

 

There's a reason the K-day is only 1/2 day... their attention span can't handle much more than that.

 

This is one of the worst ideas BSA national has ever floated.

[Eagle92]

Dr. Dean,

Around here, Kindergarten is a full day. But I agree with your assessment. I too think "Lions" is a bad idea.

[Phibbles]

I don't know...there could be something good about a "Lions" program. But I would run it the way Tigers used to work, as a separate unit from actual Cub Scouts.

[Oak Tree]

Tiger Cubs became fully integrated in 2001, more or less. Before that, it was indeed a "year before Cub Scouts" in many ways.

[MNBob]

As I said when we joined in 2005, the handbook still had Scouts earning their Tiger badge before the Bobcat badge. And our Pack treated Blue & Gold as the Tigers graduating into the Pack. A site like http://www.troop97.net/bsahist2.htm#cubs doesn't mention the full integration and it was last updated in 2009. The online advancement system our Council provides only allows you to record Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, Webelos and Arrow of Light for rank advancements. The roster still separates "Tiger Cubs" from "Cub Scouts". I'm just pointing out that many places have not caught up to the "official" program and it's 2010.

[Eagle92]

MN,

Check the date on the software the council is providing as it may be out of date. I know of councils sthat still provide the 1998 version of SM Faststart training. SCOUTNET, which is the NATIONAL database that the council uses for record keepign purposes does have TIGER as a rank to be earned AFTER Bobcat. And as for the link, it is a BOY SCOUT TROOP, so they may not bve as intereste din being as accruate on the CS side. Since I've become part of the ' Blue Terror" I've noticed how little the BS folks, esp the older Scouters, know baout CSs.

[Adam S]

Kindergarten is a full day in our school district also.

 

I am wondering if the Lion program is in response to Girl Scouts having a program (Daisy) at this grade level.

[MNBob]

For those interested here was the info we were given for the 2009-2010 year:

http://www.northernstarbsa.org/Forms/Recruitment/Resources/Fall2009/GeneralRecruiting/LionCubFlyerwithcommitmentform.pdf

 

Our Pack did not participate in the first pilot year. We did participate this year although my vote was not to include Lions because I didn't feel we were partipating in the Pilot for the right reasons. As it turned out I do not believe we actually followed the program and I'd be surprised if we plan to provide any feedback. I pretty much washed my hands of it and told the Lions Coordinator that it was his responsibility.

 

Regardless of our Pack experience, I'm really not sure that Lions is necessary. It does provide us with a ready to go Tigers den but I'm not sure I see the benefit of yet another year of Cub Scouting. The cynic in me sees this as just an opportunity to boost unit numbers.

[ScoutNut]

I am not fond of the Kinder Cub idea. At all.

 

Yes, I have heard the argument (over and over) that the kids want it, and it gives you a ready made Tiger den.

 

Personally, I doubt that many of the kids could care less, unless they have an older brother/sister in Scouts. They simply learn to wait, like so many other things in school and life, until it is their turn.

 

As to the ready made Tiger den idea, that was one of the big pushes for Tigers. Tigers gives you a ready made Wolf den. Now we hear about problems retaining them into Wolf and Bear.

 

Starting them younger is not going to help the numbers in the long run. It will not improve the program. If your Pack can't field a program good enough to retain Scouts now, adding a younger year will only make it worse.

 

Thankfully, this pilot program does not seem to be taking off very fast.

 

[CPAMom]

I've been thinking it would be wise to abolish the Tiger level. I have not yet seen that level run very well. I think it could serve the useful purpose of training parents to help, but I've only seen disorganized leaders who barely kept things together. A kindergarten level would not be an improvement.

 

I know this is not today's thinking, but might it be better to have boys long for the day that they can join Cub Scouts, that day being when they have enough attention span left after the school day to accomplish something?

 

I do realize, however badly it's running, Tigers are here to stay. It would be too hard to get rid of it.

[SctDad]

OUr TIgers are fuly integrated in our pack too. The only difference is that they are required to have a responsible adult with them.

 

As for the Lion idea. How is making the program bigger and wider on the age group going to fix the problem. As it is now, most parents leave when they realize that they have to stay with the Tigers. Most think that it is just something that happens every so often. Who else has heard the "He is no longer interested" The thing that I hate the most is when our DE says that we have to take all the sign ups (because the other 3 packs in our county are folding) and then ask me why it is that the numbers are dropping. More on that in another topic. But I do not think that adding Lion Cubs is the answer.