Parents wanting to Crossover Webelos at different times

[Graywr 10]

I just took over a Webelos 2 Den and am working on getting the Scouts caught up in order to get their Arrow of Light and crossover in Febuary. First a little back ground I just moved to the area and worked with one of the parents in my last den who is now my assistant leader. Last year in Webelos 1 the scouts only earned the 3 required activities badges needed for their Webelos badge, some put in the time on their own to earn more. My issue now is that a Parent of one scout that still needs 4 activity pins for their Arrow of Light, tells me that she plans on her son to cross over to boy scouts before Christmas. She also got defensive when I told her that her son, even though it was signed off from last year, need to memorize the Boy Scout Oath and the Scout Law because he could not repeat it when asked. Any suggestions on how to handle this?

[SMT224 10]

Graywr -

 

Welcome to the campfire!

 

I'm a Scoutmaster, so my perspective on this may be different on this than some of the other folks who are directly involved in Cubs. No doubt they will weight in soon.

 

We have a feeder Pack and do a "Crossover" ceremony once a year in late April, just after our annual Webelos/Troop campout. At that ceremony, the Cubs cross a bridge, leaving the younger Cubs and their parents, and join our Troop, eventually leaving the area with the other Scouts. It is that ceremony that is the "Crossover", not just leaving the Pack and joining a Troop.

 

So, in response to your posting, my first question is "Why?" Why does this mom want to do this? Does she have another son in the Troop and wants the younger to join for some specific Troop activity? Does she not understand he will not get his Arrow of Light if he leaves now? Plus, a big part of the Crossover ceremony is doing it with all his friends - they leave the Pack together and come in to the Troop together. Why would she want to deny her son that?

 

If she were trying to bring him in to my Troop, I would ask her the above questions and highly recommend her son stay with the Pack and actually do the Crossover, not just arbitrarily leave the Pack and join a Troop (assuming he would meet the joining qualifications w/o his Arrow of Light).

 

Again, this mom needs to understand that what she is proposing (at least for our Pack & Troop) is not a "Crossover", but an arbitrary departure from the Pack and joining a Troop. Further, by leaving before he has earned his Arrow of Light, he may not qualify to join a Troop, and will not have the one patch that can be worn on his Boy Scout uniform (something all his buddies will have, but not him). Plus, and maybe most important, he will be leaving all his friend behind and coming into a situation where he may not have any friends.

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

I am "old skool." I turned 11 in October 1967. Just before my birthday I received my Arrow of Light. For several reasons, I was not in a Troop until January 1968. From my perspective, there is nothing wrong with a youth moving from Cubs to Boys on the schedule his parents want, so long as he meets membership guidelines. If the Arrow of Light does not pass the "so-what" test, it might be the parents have decided the program isn't meeting the need.

 

We've made a lot of hoopla in recent years about the move from Cub to Boy. Want to know something? My PL, at my first COH (about a month after joining, led me in front of youth and family in the Oath and Law. Then,Mr Weiss (my SM) welcomed me, Mom, and Dad to the Troop.

 

Concentrate on the needs of the youth, not an artificial timeline. That may mean they don't join in one batch. Scoutmasters and WDLs alike need to remember it's about the youths' growth and development, not our convenience.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[evmori 11]

How old will this little prodigy be in December?

[ChaiAdventure 25]

If the boy is turning 11, and the Mom is so "involved and interested" to know when she wants her boy to crossover....I would let him go. At the same time, I would hold him to the standards for AOL and if he cannot pass the requirements (even if they were signed off at one time in his life) to KNOW things like the oath and the law, the he does no qualify for the award.

 

It sounds like you are doing the right thing and have the right attitude.

[scoutldr 732]

This is really between the parents and the Troop. Just adhere to the rules...if the requirements aren't done, no AOL. Oh, well.

 

 

[Buffalo Skipper 13]

Welcome! Webelos is great and fun time to work with boys. Enjoy this year while you can. It seems to me you are trying to do everything right and that is good.

 

As for advice, first I would remind the mom that even at 11, her boy would be in a group of middle- and high-schoolers, alone. If they wait to cross with the rest, your group of elementary school boys will be better able to adjust together, as a team. Remind her that your den is a team and that breaking up the team prematurely hurts all the members, those that leave as well as those who remain. But if he is 11 years old and she wants him to cross to a troop, you cannot stop her, nor should you put roadblocks in the way. Work with him, just as you would your other scouts to prepare him for a troop; that is what Webelos is about.

 

As far as already being signed off on reciting the scout oath and law; if it was previously signed off it counts. Plain and simple. Our 5th grade Webelos den [Go Dragons!] meets together with a 4th grade den, and part of our opening ceremony every week is to recite the scout oath and law. That way, every scout is reinforced with this, and he will memorize it without your having to force it on him or retest him.

 

I also have a 5th grade den of mixed experienced Webelos and new scouts. The new scouts are excited about joining and we are making it interesting for everyone. The experienced Webelos are working with the new friends to see that they earn their Bobcat and their Webelos badge. It is a great bonding experience for these boys and I am excited at their prospects in moving to a troop in 4-5 months.

 

Have fun!(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

[Gunny2862 11]

Since this is in the open program area you'll probably get a lot of Scoutmasters - So, what does the boy want to do? When the Mom isn't within earshot.

[Lisabob 13]

One thing to consider is whether forcing this family to stay with the pack might result in them dropping out, instead.

 

Sometimes people are just done with cub scouting. Parents get burned out, boys get bored, they're ready to move on. If that is the case here and assuming that the boy meets the joining requirements for boy scouts, let him go. If you hold him back to meet an artificial deadline (and late winter/early spring crossover time is an artificial deadline, even if it is typical in your area) then you may lose him to scouting all together. And Christmas is a long ways away. Some of those activity pins can be earned pretty quickly. Hold the same standard for this boy as for all the others when it comes to AoL, but that's really all you can (or should, IMO) do.

[ScoutNut 147]

Also, keep in mind that for any activity pin done at home, unless the Webelos Den Leader has given the Scout permission to work on a specific badge at home, and given the parents permission to sign off on that specific badge, the Webelos should be bringing his work into the den meeting to be approved and signed off by his den leader.

 

As for the Scout Oath and Law, once signed off it is done. There should be no re-testing. This is Cub Scouts where the defining criteria is still "Do Your Best". What you can do however, is to do a lot of repetition. Repetition, using a skill, makes it easier for the boys to retain what they have learned. Incorporate the Scout Oath and Law into your den openings and/or closings every meeting.

 

[trainerlady 10]

Has anyone considered that this young man may not want to join the same troop as the rest of the den? In my area it's quite common for some kids to go to one troop and some to go to another. In our Pack's current Webelos 2 den there will be at least 2 troops that get boys. In my Webelos 1 den there may be as many as 3-4 troops getting some of my 12 boys. I'll probably have a kid or 2 that don't go any further too.

 

Why the split ups? Some boys/parents don't get along with each other. Some families can't meet on a particular night, others won't go to a church outside their faith for meetings. Others seek a unit closer to home. Some units and kids just don't fit each other. My boys will fall into all of these statements.

 

If the kid doesn't qualify for AoL and wants to go and can go let him. But to me if he does it without an AoL then it eally isn't a crossover, it's a transfer. Therefore IMHO no ceremony, no party, just a pleasant goodbye and good luck from his den mates.

 

 

[eghiglie 10]

If they have been signed off at some point then typically retesting is frowned on and many times your Council will tell you that you cannot retest.

 

Our troop says the Oath and Law every meeting but the boys are just mumbling it.

 

Last week we had a inter patrol challenge using the a scramble game of the oath and law. Based on the results we started remedial teaching. The boys ranged in rank from TF to Life. The life scout knew the oath, but stopped at loyal for the law.

 

 

[Lisabob 13]

This is a little bit off track, but maybe it will help the Webelos leader in this thread too.

 

eghiglie, who leads the boys in saying these at the start of your meetings? If the adults are leading it, that gives the boys cover to not really learn it.

 

I know that most boys don't really know the oath & law by memory when they first cross over into my son's troop. But the SPL leads the troop in reciting the oath & law every meeting. We require boys to recite these in all of their BORs. (Inability to do so would be a discussion point in the BOR - though not necessarily a trigger for denying advancement.) It features in some way in most of the openings for courts of honor, too. It doesn't take long for the new boys to memorize it, if they are repeating it so often.