How far do you go?

[ScoutNut 147]

"But in addition to the electives this parent said little Johnny should get 7 belt loops and 4 pins. None of the other Wolves that have been active will be getting anything close to that many."

 

It sounds like none of the other Wolves worked at home with their parents.

 

 

"this parent told a committee member little Johnny was home making his door stop and said she told her husband he had two nights to complete all the electives she already turned in as being completed."

 

Well, at least you know that the boy is actually doing the stuff with his dad. This mom needs to calm down a bit and not get ahead of things. You could give the dad a call and ask him to let you know if they don't manage to complete some of the electives.

 

[ManyHats 10]

The point is they had all year to work on electives, belt loops etc. The deadline for turning in all that stuff was last Wed. I didn't get this particular scouts until Mon. morning and obviously he hadn't done all the stuff she said he did. Rules are rules. What are we teaching them if the rules don't apply equally?

 

On another note how do you distribute information about all the belt loops, so everyone has the opportunity to work on them at home?

[Lisabob 13]

There are some websites that include a listing of requirements for the loops and pins. My favorite is the Virtual Cub Leaders Handbook, found here: http://www.geocities.com/~Pack215/

 

There's lots of good info in there. You can find the loops under the heading "The NEW Academics and Sports Program!" Click on that and then scroll down to the bottom of the page to find a drop-down menu of all the loops. When I was a cub leader I shared this freely with any adult who would hold still long enough to hear about it - den leaders too!

 

About this boy - I agree that the parents ought to have gotten the list to you by your deadline. And if it now requires a special trip to the council store, out of your way because they missed your deadline, well then that's pretty inconvenient and maybe you can't accommodate them.

 

But if you want to come down hard on this particular deadline then I hope you've been very consistent with all of your other deadlines this year, because any wiggle room will likely cause this parent to complain that you are treating her family differently than you have treated the rest in the past.

 

In short, you have to decide whether you really need to go toe-to-toe on this one. Sometimes it isn't worth it (even when you're right) and besides, the rest of the committee will know that this parent is goofy even without you pushing the issue much further.

 

If it were me, I probably would hold my ground on the ones that specifically require a den presentation, if the boy didn't actually do the den presentation. I would "trust Akela" on the others. And I would be more explicit about expectations in the future to try and head off such future shenanigans.

 

[ManyHats 10]

We have at least one copy of the belt loop book. I can send them to the web, but that's assuming everyone has access to the web. I really don't want to make copies of the entire book. If you send a list of the belt loops available, I think we'll run into the same problem.

[Karen_216 10]

I've found there are so many things the children do at school that if parents took the time to talk to the teachers and their child they would come up with many Beltloops and electives as being met. Of course I only count what is done that current year if it is a rank item. Maybe it is not a matter that these parents are "fudging" but that the other parents didn't count items they could have. I make it a point when partial items from rank or beltloops are completed to the the parent know-- your son only has this one item (list)left to complete this beltloop or award.

I have had the issue of scouts that are barely there having parents say they completed the requirements. As stated before it's only required that they "do their best". And if Akela says it was completed then you put in for it. Encourage the rest of the families as well. This boy may have more extra curricular and parental involvement than you know. As for giving a list and making it easy, the parents need to be informed as to what is involved. I think there was nothing wrong with that. Ultimately its' the parent that makes sure the values of scouting are being instilled correctly. We've discussed in Committee similar issues and come up with -- if that's those are the values you want instilled in your child then that's what you are teaching them either-- do the job and do your best or say you did it but don't actually. The child knows what they did and didn't do.

[ScoutNut 147]

I have a flier made up with the info on the Academics and Sports program. It includes a list of the subjects, my contact info, and a few sites where they can download the requirements.

 

They can either contact me for a hard copy or look online for the requirements. I also leave copies of the more popular Belt Loops in our Scout Cabinet at our CO.

 

A few questions - Cub Scouts have until the end of the school year to earn Electives. Why not simply give the boy the electives he has earned to date and the rest he can finish up and get credit for next month?

 

There is also no time limit on how long it takes to earn Belt Loops or Pins. Why not give the Scout the opportunity to finish up the Math Belt Loop next month and award it to him at the May Pack meeting?

 

Why the rush to squeeze everything in this month?

[ManyHats 10]

I wasn't rushing anything. I sent home a paper stating all awards for the banquet had to be turned in by last Wed. Our graduation ceremony is tomorrow night. IMO this parent wants her son to be highly awarded at the banquet. I guess we didn't state electives and belt loops can be earned at any time.

[CassieLN 10]

Seven beltloops per scout per year is the norm for our pack. Even more than that can be done without difficulty. Even if a scout doesn't come to den meetings, you don't know how active he is at home.

 

My question is: why were the belt loops not awarded throughout the year? Obviously, he didn't do them all in the last month. It is important to emphasize to parents to turn in belt loops when the child earns them so they can be recognized as soon as possible. Also, I find it gets other kids motivated ("Hey, there is a bicycling belt loop- I want to do that next week!")

 

I have a special case this year: a scout who has high functioning autism. I am familiar with autism, and this scout is motivated and fun. His father wanted to be ADL (probably would have been DL if his job allowed for it). A few months into the year, the father's job changed and required a lot of travel. The scout didn't want to come to meetings without his father (he had it into his head that it was a dad thing instead of a mom thing- common for austic children to get attached to "rules" even if they are flexible!) The scout ended up not participating for most of the year. I kept tabs on the father and I know the family works with the scout at home. Today I learned that the scout has 9 arrow points and 14 belt loops. I am thrilled- the family has managed to keep the scout active despite the circumstances. I know that your sitation is different with a scout without special needs, but who are we to question what goes on at home?

[Karen_216 10]

As for the original question-- do you make them bring the poster-- I made my son do it for a Belt loop requirement-- not sure which one now. But he brought it to a den meeting and my shy son exlained it and told all about it. I also monitor what is accomplished for itmes we do as a den... When doing LEave No Trace Award all the boys signed the pledge I brought in and made illustrations about each point. I put them all on a poster and brought them all in front of the pack to recite the pledge and show off the poster. Some people work differently and you may want to let them know next year that they submit the BL but you need to give the final OK- but for now....

 

I know it's too late at this point to question but if that is the only awards that boy ever gets then let him (and his parents) enjoy the spotlight for the 2minutes he is up there. Let every other boy enjoy their 1 minute.

In the end they are the only one's who will remember all the details. (and you if you hold on to it). Don't make it into a battle and question of if he really did it. Take them at their word and move on. Really you would have to go back and examine every scout that ever received an award and make sure every item was completed to the letter. If this family crammed everything into the last month then they've lost out on the big picture. I wouldn't concern myself so much with details about this one scout. You have better things to do. You can't read intentions into other peoples actions- not only may you be mistaken you're just aggrevating yourself.

 

 

[Oak Tree 15]

ManyHats,

 

When I was CM, we had a deadline for turning in awards. For anything turned in after the deadline, we would say "Sorry, we've already finalized the awards list for this month. We'll present Timmy's at the pack meeting next month."

 

Originally I tried to accommodate late requests, but it became too hard to insure that everything was included correctly. There were boys who got missed. And there were too many last minute requests. Once we set a deadline and held to it, people adapted. And it made our lives much easier.

[ManyHats 10]

Thanks for all the input. Last night went better than I expected. We didn't have a chance to talk to the parent before the ceremony. We discussed it with her after the ceremony and explained the belt loops can be earned at any time. The bringing in posters, etc. isn't a new standard for the pack, but hasn't been stressed. The committee feels that if the scout did the requirements it shouldn't be a big deal to show his den leader and may encourage others to work on more things at home.

BTW one of the 3 we didn't give the scout, the mother said she didn't list that one.

[John-in-KC 311]

Glad you got through it.

 

Take a couple days away from the situation, then list down the changes you want to make in how your run your den next year.

 

Set that aside a couple days, then re-visit it, and try to assign a "why" and a "what I should expect" to each change.

 

Some changes will be fully thought through and complete. Those are the ones you bounce off your peers.

 

Some will be incomplete. Send them to the bit bucket for now.

 

Here's hoping you have a great Summertime Pack Activity program!!!

[Herms 10]

I recently faced a similar challenge with a parent who basically signed off just about all of his sons activity pins as a Webelo I. I just returned from and extended vacation (from the sands of the MiddleEast desert) and have taken back over for this years Webelos II group. The first thing I did was ask our Committee Advancement Chair to remove allowing parents to enter their sons sign-offs in ScoutTracks. I am waiting for the parent to come see me. I will be telling the parent (if they come) that as a Webelo this is the way the program works, that the parents no longer sign off their boys books, but the Webelos leader does. That this is to prepare them for Boy Scouts next year when they actually have to demonstrate their knowledge and skills to a Troop leader.

 

I think this is one area that many Packs hurt a boys chances of succeeding in Boy Scouts. First we need to educate the parents that the importance is not to accumulate a bunch of patches, pins and belt loops, but to award these as symbols of achievement, new knowledge and skills and the fun they had!

 

Second we need to make sure we work the program the way it is designed (now I sound like Bobwhite, LOL (I do value his input though)) in that for Tiger Bear parents sign. For Webelos I and II the boy gets used to going to the leader, that way they are used to the process when they hit Boy Scouts!

 

My 2 cents.