kenk Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 I'm a Webelos 1 den leader and my boys are about to receive their Webelos badge and am trying to understand whether they should receive the diamond-shaped badge or the oval-shaped badge. My theory is that the diamond-shaped badge is an older-style intended to be used by boys who did NOT receive the diamond-shaped Tiger Cub badge. The diamond-shaped Webelos badge would "finish off" the four-badge rank diamond (Bobcat+Wolf+Bear+Webelos). My boys were one of the first dens to receive the diamond-shaped Tiger Cub badge. Most of the boys are currently wearing the "new" four-badge rank diamond (Tiger Cub+Bobcat+Wolf+Bear). So, continuing with my theory, my boys should be receiving the oval-shaped Webelos badge, which should replace the four-badge rank diamond, and be worn alone on the shirt pocket. My understanding is the oval shape was to more closely match the badges of rank used in Boy Scouts. I've never read any official word from BSA. I still need to check with the insignia guide, but as I recall it doesn't give much guidance on this matter. Do some Packs place the diamond-shaped Webelos badge alone on the pocket? If it matters our Webelos wear the tan uniform shirt. Your thoughts??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenk Posted March 1, 2005 Author Share Posted March 1, 2005 Or . . . I suppose the two boys in my den that did not receive the Tiger Cub badge could opt to get the diamond-shaped Webelos badge and go with the older style 4-badge configuration, and the four boys that did get the Tiger Cub badge could opt to wear the oval-shaped badge by itself. Seems like too many options to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoscout Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 MY understanding is that they should all be getting the oval. Last year was the final year for the diamond shaped Webelos Badge. There are specific positions for the diamonds on the shirt. You should not arbitrarily put the Webelos diamond where the Tiger Badge belongs. The full four part diamond tiger-bobcat-wolf-bear is a displayed proudly by the boys who have earned it. We shouldnt diminish their pride by allowing something that is wrong to happen. Aside from that, the boys should be moving into the tan/green uniform this year. The oval Webelos badge is an incentive for them to make the move. If they havent yet made the move, go to the scout shop and buy an oval temporary patch holder that can be put over the pocket button. This will work just fine until the buy the new uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torveaux Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 The diamond-shaped badge is for the blue uniform. The oval badge is for the tan uniform. If the boys wear the tan uniform they are not supposed to wear the previous year's ranks. If you had the blue uniforms and they had earned Tiger rank, they would remove the Tiger rank and replace it with the Webelos diamond.(This message has been edited by Torveaux) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torveaux Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 fotoscout, The 'new' uniform has been pitched as optional from our Council down. Generally, the idea among our Packs seems to be when the boy outgrows the blue shirt, he buys the tan one. (provided he is a Webelos Scout)Some use it as a way to differentiate between Webelos I and II. New Scouts that come in as Webelos tend to wear the tan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoscout Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 My kids would cut off an arm before they'd remove a badge! Buy the oval and a temporary patch holder. Project this into the future for a moment. What are you going to do if you, or the parent, decides to make a display board or case for the boys CS achievements. You're going to be screwed up because you didn't follow the program. The four diamond belong where they are. Even the lack of a diamond has significance. Boys who started Cub Scouts in Septemeber 01 or later, should be getting the Oval Webelos Badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torveaux Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Sure, make me get out the Leader Book... "When a Webelos Scout chooses to wear the oval shaped Webelos badge, other badges of rank and Arrow Points are not included." p. 12-4 "There are two different Webelos Rank badges. The one to be awarded depends on personal preference." p. 12-5 I got it backwards on the tan thing. If they wear the oval badge, it can only be on the tan uniform, they can, however wear the blue badges on the tan uniform. From what this says, the diamond Webelos badge is alive and well. In my son's case, he did not go to 1st grade, so he was never a Tiger, he will have room for the diamond badge. kenk, Your second post is spot-on. If your boys are like my son, they will not want the oval badge because it means removing arrow points and other rank as well. I suspect that some of his den-mates would rather replace their Tiger badge than the whole set along with the arrow points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 My son was the only boy remaining in blue when he bridged, but he did not want to give up his insignia until he changed uniforms. I checked the leader book and uniform inspection sheet, and a Webelos had the option to wear all diamonds, including the Webelos diamond, if he has not earned the Tiger rank. There is an on-line inspection sheet here: http://www.scoutstuff.org/misc/isheets/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenk Posted March 1, 2005 Author Share Posted March 1, 2005 As I had mentioned, when my boys became Webelos they all switched to the tan uniforms. They were excited about it, no complaints from parents, and some of them were a bit snug in the blue shirts they were swimming in as Wolves. During this school year - before they earned their Webelos badge - they've been wearing the 4-badge configuration using either a commercial badge holder or a homemade version (badges sewn on red felt with a loop sewn on). We'll go with the oval badges. To be honest I'm sad to see my son's 4-badge diamond come off the uniform. Many many great memories for both him and myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 kenk, run don't walk to the nearest thrift store...nearly always find a few BSA shirts (cheap) (unless you have an old shirt ready for the rag bag at home already) measure and cut a 'field' out of the salvaged shirt to include the left side of the shirt. sew all awards, rank diamonds, AoL, arrow points (badges) on (nicely), stretch and back (foam-core is great) then frame and present to your son when he crosses next year (or sooner) makes a great wall hanger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Am I mis-reading the inspection sheet? I read that the badge placement is the same on the khaki shirt as on the blue, and this is what I passed on to the pack this past year. If I am incorrect, I'd like to fix that. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torveaux Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Laurie, You are reading that sheet correctly, but I believe it is out of date. The new inspection sheet in the Leader Book (pg 34-53) has added a few lines. Under the picture of the Webelos Scout Left Pocket with the oval, they have added (TAN SHIRT). It is also spelled out in the Left Pocket description: "Webelos Scouts have the option of wearing the oval-shaped badge by itself on the tan shirt only; or the diamond shaped Webelos patch along with other rank badges on either the tan or blue shirt; or if the Tiger Cub patch was earned, the Webelos diamond-shaped patch may be worn on either the tan or blue shirt by itself and centered on the left pocket." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Thank you Torveaux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rixkidz Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 I was so excited when my son moved up... qucikly remembering all the fun I had in Girl Scouts, I rushed and bought him the tan shirt and all his Square ranks... came homes and decided I would IRON them down first to help get thim on place on his pocket BEFORE I sewed them.......... ARGHHHH So now I have an OVAL Webelos patch in my hand and as I attempt to REMOVED the SEWED and IRONED on patches I realize the is no way in )^(#$)(%$ that that is going to happen... I dash to the scout store and buy a SQUARE Webelos patch to go where the TIGERS patch was ironed/sewed.... Then my son complained that his arrows from bears and wolf were not on his uniform........ I ended up buying them and ironing them then sewing them on the other night...... I will buy a NEW uniform for the B & G next feruary.... ARGHHHHH MORAL.. dont IRON.. the goo will not COME OFF the shirt!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutNut Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Ummm - The patches are NOT iron-on. So what you inadvertently did was melt the plastic backing onto the shirt! After you get to Boy Scouts simply tack the Scout badge on the pocket. It will be coming off fairly soon to be replaced by the Tenderfoot, and on and on. PS - Make sure the new tan shirt is big enough. He will probably go thru one of those wonderful, instantaneous growth spurts in 6th or 7th grade & I think you have spent enough on shirts for a while! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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