Rixkidz 10 Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 Well it finally came to a head.. Leader #1 quit...... Leader #3 & #4 sat there with their mouth on their knees.. CC (former #2) sat there and did nothing... CM came over to the house and talked to #1, but #1 is done with the den... The boys are only a few months shy of Webelos 2 status.. the den has 7 boys.... can we really allow our son to stay with the den? 2 other parents want their son out of that den and want #1 to start a new den of 3 boys... Can that work ?? A web2 den with 4 boys and a web2 den with 3 boys ?? My husband is the #1 and has tried since June last year to work with these Ladies, he let them have more control as they demanded to be LEADERS not Co's or Asst.'s it is a mess we are really hurt over all this... This is about the boys and not us, but #1 had enough of them telling he he was not doing it right.... So Experts give us some ideas.. our CM has really stepped up to the plate on this issue, but the CC is part of the reason, and we do not expect much from him.. I am the COR. Can we lead a den ourselves? I heard before that spouses can not joint lead a den, then I heard that that was wrong... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE advise...(This message has been edited by Rixkidz) Link to post Share on other sites
SemperParatus 1 Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 In this situation - 2 small dens are better than 1 larger den. You and your husband love scouting too much (in spite of the adult problems) to completely walk away. Start that new den up with the three boys, recruit a few more and make it special for those boys. Link to post Share on other sites
Torveaux 10 Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Wow! Well the CC is supposed to be running things, but he/she really reports to the COR. Without knowing more information, it sounds like #2 (CC) put #3 & #4 on the charter, but then you would have signed it as COR, right? If you did not approve them on the charter, they have no business being leaders. Definitely get an outsider involved if you are all involved in varying degrees. At this point, I would require that 3 & 4 get trained, big-time, and have two dens. Our small pack has only 2 boys in WebI (soon to be WebII). It can work. Link to post Share on other sites
Rixkidz 10 Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 WOW is right.... I am the COR, but we are chartered to the parents of the Pack, we do not have a "REAL" chartered organization, and my COR title really has not been used or enforced since it basically is on paper. #2 (CC) was the co-leader last year (bears), but quit to be the CC as he said it was to much to handle. he recruited #3 & #4 to take over his position as Asst Leader to #1 (my husband) WITHOUT first discussing his leaving or the new members with #1. #3 & #4 came on board, but insisted on being called Leaders..NOTHING less then, When I say the demanded to be called LEADERS, not Assistants or Co-Leaders I mean they DEMANDED.(I do not know why).. it has been messy since they signed on last summer, but #1 went along with it because of the boys. The Den started with 10 boys and now is down to 7, possible 6... The cc's wife demanded a parent meeting last weekend, because she didnt think the boys were acting correctly during meetings... (spitting while outdoors (she says should be unacceptable, and the boys sayin "That sucks" should be punished!(!?) (note we are a community pack, not a LDS unit).. There are 4 of the boys that have ADD and a few other attention issues, so it is a "loud group of kids" and sometimes they are hard to handle.. and.. it goes on.... The PARENTS meeting consisted of #1 & myself, #3(mom), #4(mom), CC(dad)& his wife, one mom and the CM (he heard of the meeting and thought it a good idea to show up). It turned into a Complaining session. #3 & #4 complained that they did things right, but the OTHER leader didnt. They outwarded attacked #1's high expectations of the boys and some other things he expected of the WEBELOS (ie flag ceremonies, uniforms..) #1 is not perfect, but he is a dedicated scouter, he completed woodbadge last year and is now on the woodbadge staff.. I understand the CC is in charge, but he is worthless. (#3 & #4 have taken leader training) --thanks for letting me vent-- But I ask again.. Can I be the Asst leader if he is the Leader? I was told that that is against BSA policy ??(This message has been edited by Rixkidz) Link to post Share on other sites
jr56 92 Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Hi, go ahead and form a new den, best of luck to you. You could be an Asst. Leader to your husband, but I don't think you can be officially registered to 2 positions in the pack at the same time. You could check with your DE, COR is technically a district post, so you could probably register as an Asst. Weblos Den Leader with your husband. Sounds to me like you're going to leave #3 and #4 in your dust. It's a shame some adults never grow up, unfortunatly I've encountered a few like that in my scouting experiences also. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 jr56 is incorrect. COR (actually CR)is not a district position it is a unit position that is also a voting member of the district. The CR selects and approves the CC and is the head of the COs Scouting program. If you are the CR of record then you are the CR. Go to the CC and say "this is what we are going to do....Here is who you are going to tell, here is who I will tell." Get this situation behind you and get back to delivering the program to the boys. BW (This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to post Share on other sites
jr56 92 Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Thanks for correcting me on that on Bob. I thought I remembered somewhere that it would be permissable for a CR to be dual registered as a Committee Member, or CC, the only case in which you could hold 2 positions within a unit. So was I right in that if she remains the CR, she can't dual register as an Asst Den leader? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 The only unit position a CR can dual in is as the CC, unless the unit is determined to be in an at risk neighborhood and has the permission of the Scout Executive. Link to post Share on other sites
Rixkidz 10 Posted April 19, 2005 Author Share Posted April 19, 2005 But I ask again.. Can I be the Asst leader if he is the Leader? Our Cubmaster told me that it isnt allowed ?? I asked our DE and he STILL has not gotten back to me...?? I just received a phone call from the Asst CC, she is requesting a meeting with our CM, CC ,me and herself.. so we can decide what to do... Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 An Asst. Committee Chair??? Just a suggestion Rixkidz, if your CC can't do the job don't get them an assistant, go get a different committee chair that can do the job. Part of the solution you seek is to follow the program better. As the CR you can also be the CC but that is the ONLY position you can dual register in unless you are in an at risk neighborhood and have the permission of the SE. Link to post Share on other sites
FScouter 24 Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 "Can I be the Asst leader if he is the Leader? Our Cubmaster told me that it isnt allowed ??" There are no restrictions on any adult leader positions in Scouting based on marital status. Does the Cubmaster have a better candidate for the position? Link to post Share on other sites
Rixkidz 10 Posted April 19, 2005 Author Share Posted April 19, 2005 We have an asst CC because she is in training to take over the Pack when the CC crosses over to Boy Scouts in February. Please understand I am the COR, but our chartered Org is our parents.. WE do not have a church etc to charter us so we are chartered to the Parents (our pack has been doing it this way for 60+ yrs).. I just happen to be the one that got the title of COR, since I do the recharter, packmaster,advancements & treasury. Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutNut 147 Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 It doesn't matter if your CO is a church, a PTO, the neighborhood store or a bunch of parents, the job of the COR (or CR) remains the same. The CO (no matter who or what they are) owns the unit and the COR is their representative in the Troop AND in the Council. You need to stop thinking of your registered position as a job on paper only. It isn't. It is an extremely important position. Have you taken the training for CO/COR? If you haven't, you should, and then you should start doing your job. BTW - Although you can NOT dual register, many Scouters hold multiple positions in a unit. Not reccomended, but it is done. There is no BSA regulation against a husband & wife leading a den. You are the COR, you are responsible for providing leadership. Simply tell the CC & Asst CC what is going to happen. The CM (who is in charge of program not leadership BTW) is incorrect. Link to post Share on other sites
FScouter 24 Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 "I just happen to be the one that got the title of COR, since I do the recharter, packmaster,advancements & treasury." If you are trying to do the work of 3 or 4 committee members, you're in big trouble. You don't need to invent a new committee position. Just give up some of yours. Since you have no chartered org, CR in your case is an empty title. Our council no longer signs charters with "parents" groups. Without exception, they always fail. Link to post Share on other sites
Rixkidz 10 Posted April 20, 2005 Author Share Posted April 20, 2005 First off thank you Scoutnut and FScouter for your invaluable information. Last evening the Executive committee had a meeting and decided to split the den in attendance The CM, ACC, CC, and myself. FScouter....Although it might not be the best choice we are chartered to the parents of our Packand have been since 1944. We are a small town and we dont have the option for a CO. My responsibilities all fall to the computer type work that is done.. easier with it all in one location... I am official registered only as the COR and Committee Member. Thanks again for your input.. Link to post Share on other sites
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