Den3702 10 Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 This has become an issue in the pack of which I am currently a Bears Den Leader in. I wish to ask all of you for your opinions, whether they be positive or negative. I am asking here so as to try and get opinions from those not directly involved. I have purposely not disclosed my position in this issue. The situation is as follows: At the monthly Pack Committee Meeting it was brought up for discussion that a girl was interested in joining the Pack. She would be of Webelos age and has brothers currently in Cub Scouting. Three Committee Members felt this would be a positive, albeit proactive, move to allow her to join. Three others had a very negative reaction and felt the girl would be better served in joining the Girl Scouts. The Cubmaster felt the boys would need to learn to adjust to it but he saw no reason the girl could not join. The remaining attending Committee Members did not remark as to their position. Our DE present at the meeting recommended that the policy on girl's in Cub Scouts be determined and ultimately would require approval from the Council. No further discussion on this topic has occurred since then at Committee level. I received a telephone call from a CubScout mother rather upset she learned a girl has joined our Pack from a member of another local Pack. She contacted the Cubmaster who stated that the Council had indeed approved the girl to join if no one had a problem with it. Well, it now appears that several of the parents do have a problem with it and are very upset there was no discussion with the other members of the Pack prior to making the decision to allow her to join. My main concern here is the children involved in this volatile issue. My question to the board members is this: Do you feel girl's should be allowed to join CubScouts? Why or why not? Thank you for your opinions. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 No council will accept the registration for a female under the age of 14. If there is a girl with the pack she is not registered member of the BSA. She cannot wear the uniform, she cannot advance, she is not covered by insurance. Contact your local Scout Executive, if this is anything more than a rumor, and the situation will be dealt with quickly. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
Eamonn 61 Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Unless you are willling to move the pack and the young Lady to a country that allows girls, it just can't be done. This isn't a matter of opinion it is just the way it is. I hope you don't mind me asking. But what was a DE doing at a monthly pack committee meeting? I have say that I'm a little more than surprised that he or she didn't lay out the facts there and then. Eamonn. Link to post Share on other sites
Den3702 10 Posted November 5, 2004 Author Share Posted November 5, 2004 The DE, who does attend Committee Meetings every now and then, did state that it definetely would not be allowed in Boy Scouts but he wasn't sure of the policy in Cub Scouts for allowing young ladies to join. He was also getting the "evil eye" from those who were interested in letting her join. It appeared to me he didn't want to take a definitive stance without checking with Council. The discussion at that time was also getting rather heated, he may have been trying to let it cool off by deferring to Council approval. "Unless you are willling to move the pack and the young Lady to a country that allows girls, it just can't be done. This isn't a matter of opinion it is just the way it is. I hope you don't mind me asking. But what was a DE doing at a monthly pack committee meeting? I have say that I'm a little more than surprised that he or she didn't lay out the facts there and then. Eamonn" Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Unless the DE started there day there is no way they would not know that girls cannot join Cub Scouts. I'm sorry but I do not know of any DE who attends unit committee meetings from time to time unless invited in because of a major problem that could not be addressed by a commissioner or other district member. This entire situation is totally implausible. Link to post Share on other sites
Den3702 10 Posted November 5, 2004 Author Share Posted November 5, 2004 Thank you both for your replies. I do agree with you that this situation is totally implausible. I never imagined I would have been having to deal with it myself. Unfortunately, I am fairly new to Scouting and not familiar with all the rules and regulations. My opinion was it states in the leader's handbook that Cub Scouts is for boys, end of discussion. However, we have a few of those who wish to buck the system. I had searched the www in hopes of finding another Pack that has had to deal with this and came upon your forum. I appreciate the opportunity to be allowed to post here and also your taking the time to respond. I understood it was the DE that was visiting the Committee Meetings, perhaps I am wrong in his title. Either way, thank you. I thought I was all up on my high horse without a saddle about not having a young lady enter into our Pack for what seemed obvious reasons to me. Your replies have firmed up my decision to discuss this further at the Council level. Link to post Share on other sites
Grumpy 10 Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 No way, no how. Girls in Venturing and Exploring is wonderful, but not CS or BS. I would have to believe the DE was there because the CM knew this volatile issue was to be raised. -Grump- Link to post Share on other sites
nldscout 18 Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Girls in Cub Scouts, no way, girls have cooties. Link to post Share on other sites
Den3702 10 Posted November 5, 2004 Author Share Posted November 5, 2004 Girls have cooties.... BUT they're really pretty and nice cooties unlike those puppy dog's tail type cooties the BOYS have(This message has been edited by Den3702) Link to post Share on other sites
cubbingcarol 10 Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 I am the mother of 2 boys and 2 girls. While I support women's rights to a point I DO NOT believe that girls should be allowed in CS ever! JMHO. Carol Link to post Share on other sites
Den3702 10 Posted November 5, 2004 Author Share Posted November 5, 2004 I just received a copy of the new pack roster. This young lady's name is listed in the roster as a Webelos 1st year. I am not looking forward to my Den meeting with angry parents tonight. I am frustrated with what seems to be a total lack of respect by a select few. Some days it just doesn't pay to get out of bed..... Link to post Share on other sites
NJCubScouter 1389 Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Grumpy says: I would have to believe the DE was there because the CM knew this volatile issue was to be raised. If your speculation is correct, the CM's plan seems to have backfired, because this DE seems to be the one professional Scouter in the country who does not know girls aren't allowed in Cub Scouting. My personal speculation is that whoever told Den3702 that this person was the DE was incorrect. I have spoken with a couple of DE's who seemed somewhat shaky on the details of the Scouting program (and now that I think about it, Cub Scouts in particular), but a DE having to check on whether girls can be Cub Scouts does not seem possible. What does seem possible is unit-level Scouters not understanding the structure and personnel at the district and council level, and I don't mean that as a negative. My guess is that if I asked all the leaders I have served with in the pack and troop what a "DE" was, or any other basic question about the structure or staffing above the unit level, at least half wouldn't know, and most of those who would know are either THE unit leader or the CC. It seems like I have always known, but that's because when I was an older Scout, my father (the SM) would take me with him when he went to the Council service center, and he would introduce me to people and tell me what their jobs were; and after I turned 18 I would tag along with him to roundtables. Most unit Scouters haven't had that kind of background. Den3702, you ended your first post with the question of whether people feel girls should be allowed to join Cub Scouts. This issue has been discussed a few times on the "Issues and Politics" part of this forum and it belongs there because it can be a controversial issue. From past discussions, there are some people who believe Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts should not be gender-restricted, but most disagree. (Including me, but maybe not for the same reasons as most others.) However, the question raised by the discussion at your committee meeting is not really whether girls SHOULD be allowed to join, but whether they ARE allowed to join. The people at your committee meeting seemed to think this was an open issue and that your pack can make this decision. It is not an open issue and your pack cannot decide to admit girls. Link to post Share on other sites
EagleInKY 14 Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 This is so similar to packcommitteechair's issue regarding the Kindergarten Tiger Cub, that it is very troubling. Why do so many people want to say "ignore the rules, I want what is in MY best interest."? I guess it's just the world we live in today. The big difference in your situation and packcommitteechair's is that - in your case - it does not appear that the proper decision was made at the local level, nor did you get the proper support from council. I agree with the last post. This is not a debate about whether a girl should be able to join Cub Scouts. The issue is whether she can. That answer is clear - NO. But, who knows, I hear that John Edwards is looking for work. He might take this on for them. Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 The girl is on your pack roster from the council, eh? That can be corrected by showing the council registrar the roster and explaining that this is a girl. The registrar works at the scout office and is the one who enters the data. On a Cub Scout application, it doesn't ask gender -- because girls can't join. Registrars and other people who look at the application aren't in a position to figure it out from the first name . . . it doesn't work that way today. After all . . . impish grin . . . how are we to know that Eamonn isn't Eamonna! Unc. Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 To paraphrase Tom Hanks in "A League of Their Own" Girls? There's no girls in Cub Scouting! Link to post Share on other sites
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