Can't See the Forest for the Hikers? Big Groups Face Limits

[fgoodwin 23]

Can't See the Forest for the Hikers? Big Groups Face Limits

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/20/nyregion/20hikers.html

 

November 20, 2005

 

By MICHELLE YORK

 

LAKE PLACID, N.Y. - Over the Columbus Day weekend last month, a 16-member group of Boy Scouts and chaperons from Rochester began an overnight hiking trip in the Adirondack High Peaks wilderness area. But for their efforts, the group earned something less illustrious than a merit badge.

 

Forest rangers evicted them from the park for violating rules that restrict the size of hiking groups after spotting their tents clustered together and the group hiking en masse. Then, state environmental officers gave tickets to the two Scout leaders, who had been warned of the rules beforehand. Only 15 people are allowed to hike together for day trips, and overnight camping groups like the Scouts are limited to eight.

 

"I feel bad for the kids when that happens," said Peter L. Price, an assistant forest ranger, adding, "I must have spoken to them four times, warning them to split up."

 

Concerned that large groups were destroying the woods - and the peace - New York State's Department of Environmental Conservation began enforcing stricter limits on group sizes in the wilderness area. As a result, though a few try to flout the law, many have stopped coming.

 

Since the rules took effect, the number of hikers has dropped steadily, reversing the surge in the 1980's and 90's. Last year, roughly 94,000 hikers visited the High Peaks - down from the highs in the late 1990's when nearly 140,000 hikers visited, according to department statistics.

 

The state is now reviewing its master plan to see if the drop has been enough to protect the area, or if further restrictions are needed, said a spokesman, David Winchell. The review might take several months.

 

Some environmental groups, like the Adirondack Council, would like to see even fewer people visit the High Peaks. "I think 85,000 people a year is a good starting point," the executive director, Brian Houseal, said.

 

Big groups widen the trails. They tend to leave behind more garbage, creating a potential for encounters with bears, and they trample flora on the mountaintops. They also have a harder time keeping track of their members, state officials said.

 

But restricting them is a problematic policy in a region that depends on tourism. When the rules were enacted, many organizations that used tour buses stopped coming, and other groups, like the Boy Scouts, found it difficult to provide more adults to supervise smaller groups.

 

"It's a double-edged sword," said Carl Gronlund, the director of operations for Mirror Lake Inn in Lake Placid. Though his business has not been affected so far, he fears further restrictions.

 

According to a survey in April released by the Lake Placid/Essex County Visitors Bureau, hiking is the main draw for 37 percent of visitors - more than the Olympic sites that provide a showcase for Lake Placid's sporting history. Each visitor is estimated to spend about $243 a day. Some business owners fear continued decreases in annual hiking could cause a significant loss of revenue.

 

"Without tourism, there wouldn't be much here," Mr. Gronlund said.

 

In spite of that, most retailers say they are happier, so far, that the High Peaks seem to be on fewer people's itineraries. "There's definitely a decrease in bus groups, but it was getting bad," said Vinny McClelland, the manager of the Mountaineer, a hiker's supply store in Keene Valley. "A bus would pull up and 60 people would get off, with the bus staying there, idling all day." He added that half the people would go into the woods to urinate.

 

An assistant manager of Eastern Mountain Sports in Lake Placid, Bill Schneider, said he has heard complaints from business owners unhappy about the decrease and from large groups that arrive unaware.

 

"But I moved here to be in the country, and I enjoy it," he said. "It doesn't hurt my feelings that huge groups aren't tramping through the woods."

 

Ludger Lebel, the manager of DTour Nature, a tour business in Montreal that used to visit the High Peaks, scoffed at the suggestion that large groups were disproportionately destructive. "We're well organized and well disciplined," he said.

 

Because of the regulations, he has scheduled more tours in Vermont and New Hampshire instead of the Adirondacks. "Especially on long weekends, we don't go anymore," he said. "But if I don't go with my bus, people are taking their cars. I don't know which is better for the environment, one bus or 25 cars."

 

Josh Baker, a director of the outdoor education program at Colgate University, said he has rearranged the college's excursions, taking more frequent bus trips with smaller groups of students, which has increased expenses. "What it's doing now is squeezing us," he said. "We are going to other places as well, but we can't stop going to the High Peaks because it's beautiful."

 

Rangers often stop groups at the trailheads and break them into smaller parties, hiking at least a mile apart. "Most are understanding and willing to accommodate, and some get irritated and frustrated," Mr. Price said. "We tell them they are definitely more destructive whether they intend to be or not."

 

The Boy Scout group from Rochester, which received 2 of the 10 tickets issued so far this year, took it in stride and was apologetic, Mr. Price said, adding that once they understood the reason behind the rules, they "actually thanked us."

[Eagle69 46]

I'm not surprised. I ran into rules like this back in the 80's when backpacking in a couple of National Parks. What's tough it when you don't know about these rules on the front end and if you comply with them you will have groups without sufficent adult supervision so then what do you do.

[fgoodwin 23]

Eagle69: have you been through Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills (IOLS)? If so, did your campsite selection trainer mention compliance with local regulations regarding group size? If not, they should have.

 

The IOLS syllabus specifically states that campsite planning should consider group size. In addition, the LNT session of IOLS states that advance planning makes it easier to comply with local regulations, clearly implying that someone should determine what those local regulations are (e.g., limitations on group size) in advance of the outing.

 

I know these are just two points among hundreds covered during IOLS, but it seems to me if these were covered in the training of the two leaders mentioned in the article, then they should have checked ahead for things like group size limitations.

 

Assuming they weren't trained, or the points weren't covered, they probably ignored the warning because (as you say) by the time they were on the trail, it was too late to split up, again, assuming they had only two leaders and hence could not maintain two-deep leadership for the two groups:

 

This may have been hinted at in the article:other groups, like the Boy Scouts, found it difficult to provide more adults to supervise smaller groups.Had they known in advance what the size requirements were, the Troop could have planned to have had more adults come along (the article mentions only two leaders, but it doesn't say there weren't more).

 

If they had only two adults, and could not comply with the local regulation on group size while maintaining two deep leadership, the only thing to do was to cancel the outing.

[EagleInKY 14]

True Fred, but if this becomes a trend, it will be more and more difficult for scout units to participate in backpacking adventures. We recently had a backpacking trip with our older scouts. There were seven of them, and two adults. According to the rules, we were over sized by one. Who are we going to ask to not go? It can't be an adult. Since most patrols are made up of about 7 or 8 boys, it will be difficult to do it, unless we let them go without adult leadership. An option, yes, but not likely to fit all situations.

[fgoodwin 23]

Eagle:

 

Did you know the local size limitation in advance?

 

Had you known, you could have asked another adult to come along, then broken the boys up into two groups. I guess I don't see why that's so hard to do -- but it requires advance planning.

 

I pity those groups that show up at a trail or campsite, only to find out they're over the limit -- but whose fault is that?

[nldscout 18]

Fred,

The problem with the area mentioned is there are mulitple rules on group size with in a mile or 2 of where the group was stopped.

 

In the High peaks part of the Adirondaks there is the limit mentioned, go a couple miles down trail, limit is greater, go 2 miles the other direction on to Paper company land and rules are different again. Sometimes its a mess trying to figure out where the lines are.

[fgoodwin 23]

nldscout: so how do you suggest that troops deal with the issue of local regulations?

[nldscout 18]

The only way is to ask. But let me give you an axample of what can happen. A few years ago we took scouts hiking for day. Where we started out and ended there was no group size limits, as far as we knew we were good to go on the trail, thats why we picked this area.

 

As we were a little ahead of schedule we looked at map and there was a side loop that added an extra mile to hike. We polled the Scouts and they were game for the extra bit as there was some interesting sights on the loop. It wasn't until we were almost out that we ran into another couple of hikers who informed us that the side trail was in the High Peaks area and had a limit at that time of 12.

 

It was that easy to cross bounderies and there were no trail markings.

 

Now in the story that started this, it appears they may have been warned several times, if that is true, then shame on them. When we were told we left the area, they apparently just deceided to hike on. That in its self is dumb as they should have figured that the ranger would check on them later, and they did.

 

[fgoodwin 23]

I guess the lesson in your troop's case is: don't assume anything. Just because you don't see any hiking limits doesn't mean there aren't any.

 

When you say "ask", it all depends on what and how you ask. I'd say to be absolutely sure, inform the park rangers that you have a group of xxx Scouts and zz adults -- then ask them if there *anyplace* along the trail, beside the trail, sidetrails, detours, etc. where the group will be over the size limit?

 

Also, if you file a hiking plan with the rangers, you really should stick to it -- if your group gets lost on a trail that's not on the hiking plan, you make it that much harder for SAR to find you.

 

Justa suggestion . . .

[EagleInKY 14]

Fred,

 

(Sorry for the delayed response) I learned of the limit a week or so before the trip. I actually stumbled across it as we were looking at different alternatives for the hike. I had never heard it before, even though I had hiked there many times, so I was pretty sure that it was not strictly enforced. We ran across a ranger as we were choosing a campsite and he didn't say anything to us.

 

Actually, I'm not sure about how two-deep fits into this. I wanted a third, just in case we had a problem where one of us had to back out at the last minute. Would we have had to have two adults with each group? If so, then we would have had to find two additional adults. Considering the fact that I was unsuccessful recruiting a third, that certainly presents a problem.

[anarchist 10]

folks,

 

This is the "wave" of the future for park use...Boundary Waters (US side) has had limits for more than ten years (number of people and number of canoes in each "group" and campers at each "campsite". AT has rules about where how and when to camp...these 'rules' are all designed to lessen the 'impact' on the area envrionment as well as the other users.

 

So it goes with out saying; if you are using a city county state or national park, retreat, wildlife area, wilderness area or even a private farm you should contact (well in advance) the "authorities", explain your trek, including number of trekers , method of waste/trash disposal and itinerary... ask for written or email copy of park regulations...

 

what was that saying I heard once a long while ago...oh, yes ..."Be Prepared", (sorry I couldn't help myself)

Anarchist

[frankj 10]

Restrictions on size of group are common in wilderness areas here in the Pacific NW. A wilderness area is a specific designation given to areas within the National Forest system. National Parks probably have similar group size restrictions -- we tend to go to wilderness areas more.

 

The trick is, knowing you have to ask the question or knowing to look for it on a web site.

 

I have mixed feelings about the group size thing. I don't buy the arguement that it has to do with impact. I think it has more to do with a recreation-planner/manager's concept of what constitutes a "back-country" experience. Some may take issue with me, that's fine.

[packsaddle 753]

I support the regulatory limits and after seeing the effects of 'illegal' larger groups, I wish they were enforced more strictly. In this area, we also contend with horseback riders and mountain bikes on trails clearly marked for foot traffic only. Very frustrating. This issue reminds me of something I learned several decades ago during a citizenship merit badge: ignorance of the law doesn't excuse breaking it.

We always do research on the destination and PREPARE ahead of time. So far, we've only had one problem and that was an honest misunderstanding that we worked out with the rangers (they are almost always very reasonable people who want to resolve problems in a rational manner).

The solution: have adequate leadership and, if necessary, split into groups of legal size. Stop breaking the law.

[theysawyoucomin' 10]

This reg is bad.

2 deep and six kids that is the limit. "Sorry you can't take a whole patrol camping in the Eastern High Peaks 'cause somebody else ruined it for you."

 

Can 2 adults and a full patrol of 8 boys cause less of an impact than 8 slobs?

 

Why did the APA allow for a 250' cell tower in Lake George? Some folks call it "Frankenpine" (it will be a monster cell tower dressed like a fake pine tree).

 

Which will cause a greater impact?

 

How did the APA arrive at the number of 8?

 

The reg is bad. Stick to areas outside of the High Peaks.

 

Anybody want to see selective enforcement? Why is it every summer there is a hundred bucks worth of smashed beer bottles(none of them emptied by kids underage I'm sure) at the road to Jabe pond? Maybe they could send a ranger over there on a Saturday night.

 

Get the number to an even dozen when more than 50% is under 18 years old. That would allow youth groups from Scouts and Churches and high Schools to be safe and train kids. Kids under 18 need more supervision than college kids.

 

Guy from the EMS store------------- read his comment. Nothing like slamming the door shut now that he lives in Lake Placid.