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Compiling List of Scouts Who Have Earned All Merit Badges - Private Issue Knot

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Gold Winger,

You are a class act my friend. It's funny, I was thinking of doing the same thing to my profile, you beat me to it.


By the way, I just posted on E-bay that we will have a new knot, and you should see the auction go. I mean, why else would we go through the expense to create this knot except for money. We sure didn't think of it to get this great reaction that we have. By the way, I'm kidding on the E-bay thing.



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Based on what is posted at the National Website regarding BSA copyright and trademark protection, there is no requirement to get approval prior to using BSA logos etc as long as they are displayed. (See below)


From what I can tell from looking at other 3rd party Websites, all that is required is a disclaimer stating this is not an official BSA site.









Copyright and Trademark Protection

The trademarks and logos of the Boy Scouts of America are protected by a 1916 act of Congress (36 U.S.C. 27) as well as by a variety of registrations with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. The 1916 act specifically gives the Boy Scouts of America the sole and exclusive right to use its "emblems, badges, descriptive and designating marks" in connection with carrying out its purposes.


These and all art or logotypes obtained from the National Council, Boy Scouts of America, are the exclusive property of the Boy Scouts of America and must be used and displayed as shown in this manual or official artwork unless otherwise stated in writing from an authorized officer of the Boy Scouts of America. In other words, they must appear with any ownership symbols exactly as received, and no additional symbols are to appear in connection with them.


If the manual or official artwork indicates that the artwork or logotype is the subject of a U.S. Trademark Registration Certificate, then it should appear with the symbol. It is customary that the symbol is used once in the headline of an advertisement (if it is used in an ad or a poster) and then the first time it is used in the text.


The symbol is placed on the upper right-hand shoulder of the last letter of the trademark (if it is a word mark) or on the upper right-hand shoulder of the symbol (if it is a design mark) and in a size that is approximately one-third the size of the largest letter or element in the trademark (but never so small that it can't be read).


It is also desirable, but not as critical, to place a statement at the bottom of any advertisement or poster that clearly identifies trademarks or design marks of the Boy Scouts of America. This might read as follows:


"BE PREPARED is a registered trademark of the Boy Scouts of America."


If you have any questions concerning correct trademark usage, please contact the Custom Communication Division at the national office for further guidance.



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I was under the impression that the uniform was the great equalizer. At Brown Sea rich and poor boys alike wore the same uniform, making them equals. I have seen the same thing with adults at scouting events.


Probably the best scout I have met todate has been a guy with a district patch, troop number and that was about it. In talking with him he was an eagle and did just about everything in scouting and didn't feel the need to advertise it.


I went home and took all of my decorations off my shirt. He is the guy I aspire to be.

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erickelly65: IANAL (and not trying to hijack another thread) but I think there's much more involved in properly using BSA logos and trademarks than simply indicating that you are using a trademarked image.


License fees, for example. When some (authorized) third-party mass produces a bunch of Scouting patches, you think they get to keep all the revenue from sales of those patches just because they put a or on them? If they are following the rules (and most companies pay their attorneys a lot of money to keep them out of trouble), then some of that money flows back to BSA in the form of license fees.


If somebody uses BSA's intellectual property without an appropriate licensing arrangement (whether or not they put a or on it), you can bet BSA lawyers will come calling . . .

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Im just telling you what the BSA has posted on the matter themselves at their own Website. Nothing more, nothing less.


The point of my post, wasnt so much a legal opinion (I am a proud non-lawyer!) but rather a counter statement to the post earlier that pohsuwed had done something dishonest by using BSA logos on his website. I argue that isnt necessarily the case based on what the BSA's Website states about the use of its logos/images.


I see a significant number of "rants" here when it comes to a scout being "Trustworthy" but based on the tone and language of these same post folks don't seem to place much stock in the fact Scouts are also supposed to friendly, courteous, kind and cheerful.


(This message has been edited by erickelly65)

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Basementdweller writes:


"I was under the impression that the uniform was the great equalizer. At Brown Sea rich and poor boys alike wore the same uniform, making them equals."


I the spirit of exactness, there were no uniforms at Brownsea. Remember, this was an experimental camp and no uniform had been designed. The boys were, however, presented with an 18 inch ribbon in their patrol color to be pinned to their shoulder.




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I guess a fundamental question that has probably been discussed plenty in this forum goes down to the balance between personal/group achievement and program participation. I personally believe that both go hand in hand as in any group of scouts you will have those who are motivated by achievement and you will have others who are motivated simply by being with the group and doing fun things. Most boys probably have some of both in them. I would hate to see the idea of achievement taken out of the scouting program as it would turn the program into what we see in youth sports today - desiring not to offend those who lost the game everyone is rewarded the same. If this happened in scouting today everyone would either be the Boy Scout rank or Eagle, whichever BSA choose. I am personally motivated by achievement as it gives me a goal to shoot for. But I would hate to only be focused on achievement as that would leave some boys unmotivated. So a balanced approach is most appropriate to capture the attention of the greater number of boys.

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PM feature is evidently not working. I ahve not recieved any message from you.


I see no sign that the BSA is reducing the amount of recognition. I just think the program is not interested in designating people who earn all the merit badges as "elite". You recieved accolades as a youth for your accomplishement did you not? You got your merit badge badge patches your Eagle palms, hardy handshakes and pats on the back didn't you?


Now you want to recognize yourself, by making yourself your own knot to wear, so that others can ask you what is for and you can tell them yet again of your "elite" standing in the program.


Don't you find that at all self-grandizing?


I think what you did was a marvelous feat, and I congratulate you for your accomplishment. And if the BSA wanted to present you with a recognition for it then that's fine. But to declare yourself "elite" and create your own award because you cannot get the BSA to give you more awards then you got...that's just sad.

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

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Bob, this is my otherwise private message diluted just a little to hopefully pass muster for the forum. After all, I think what I have to say here is a good for the forum message. (By the way, it may be your e-mail settings causing your problems as I have had other private message exchanges on the forum with no problems.)



The reason you have received comments from others against your position (thus frustrating you) may be because you came out attacking me so quickly. I took your feedback appropriately and modified my website by removing the images. You then attacked the use of the word "elite." I took note and changed that too, as this was surely an inappropriate word for me to use. (See, I'm learning. Yet you continue to focus on this.) You call me an egomaniac because of an idea that would recognize a hard working group of scouts, just because I am part of that group. Have you given any thought that this might be a good idea? Or are you tearing it down just because I am in the group?


I responded to the ego comment by pointing out your profile simply to make a point that you ended up not understanding. It was not to say that you yourself were egotistical. I will clarify it here:


There are two types of people. One type is the kind who will focus on the negative and then others who are more positive and constructive. Looking at your profile and comparing it with others I would simply consider you to be experienced. I would not make a quick judgment that you were an egomaniac just because your profile had a long list of credentials compared to others. I would consider myself to be the positive and constructive type because of this. You, on the other hand, have shown that you will make brash judgments about my character and ethics based on very little information about me. Everyone can see that I took your words (and others words) to heart, made changes to improve, and thanked the forum for their input. You continued to rage until you were left standing alone wondering why everyone was now giving you a hard time. This often happens to the negative type.


A tip from me to you may be to take a deep breath and recognize that your input has helped and that I do appreciate it, so not all is lost on this thread. Next, recognize that I changed based on your input so it is no longer necessary to beat the dead horse. Then take a minute to think about the anonymity factor of forums and consider the others in the forum to be sitting across a table from you. While they may want to know if they are doing something wrong it isnt very effective to yell across the table at them as you did in the forum. You very well may change the way you interact with people on the forum if you consider this. And if you dont consider this, it may be worth your while to look again as you may continue to have similar problems in the future.


Either way, thanks for your input. I realize that this may come across as somewhat patronistic as I am probably your junior by at least a few years. If you take it as such you will only be frustrating yourself as this is not how it is intended.


This forum has been a great experience. And if you give me your address Ill gladly send you your very own and highly controversial Merit Badge Knot for your knotty collection.


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And then a final note that I should make clearer on the forum: I am not necessarily wanting to create a "new" award for myself or others. As everyone knows, a knot is a representation of another award presented. Call it a convenience to the wearer of a knot to avoid wearing multiple medals, patches, pins, or whatever the award was. At some point in time the whole idea of the square knot was developed by some individual(s) who did not want to wear all of their awards on their uniform yet still wanted to be recognized as having earned them. Im sure nobody would criticize these forefathers of scouting as being egomaniacs for wanting to consolidate insignia in a simplified fashion.


In the situation at hand, the award that has already been presented would be Eagle Palms. The Insignia Guide states that palms are to be worn by both scouts and scouters on the Eagle Award ribbon for scouts and on the Eagle Square Knot for scouters. As a youth it was difficult enough to fit seven palms on an Eagle Award ribbon let alone putting them all on the smaller square knot. Hence the idea was born to modify how this mass of palms are representedthrough the use of a separate knot. Sure, I can imagine that there then would need to be a line drawn as to how many palms would equate to a knot as six palms would also be difficult to wear, although that is not all of the merit badges. No idea is perfect, and this is in my opinion the only drawback. Hence, make the knot for the achievement of all merit badges. Or there could be some variations that can be included. And yes, regardless of what I say here I understand that this all can still be construed as another award. So be it. Ill just have to take my lumps for that too.


And by the way, the National Council has yet to return my phone call on these ideas.

(This message has been edited by pohsuwed)

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Since I feel you deserve a response I will send you an e-mail through your website. I will include an e-mail address that you can use to respond to me if you would like. I am posting here so that others will understand that I have tried to respond to your "private" message.

BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)

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