Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
pohsuwed

Compiling List of Scouts Who Have Earned All Merit Badges - Private Issue Knot

Recommended Posts

I think you are probably correct about the e-mail settings causing the problem with Bob's PM's Troy.

 

I think the idea is good, but think the distribution would be limited. Reasons are there are not that many that earn all the MB's and getting the word out. If you get the blessing of the BSA, you might be able to get them to link your site to there's!

 

Good luck!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you have tried to e-mail in the last couple of months through the PM feature on this site I have not recieved it. If you were seeking answers to questions regarding Scouting then I apologize for not getting your message or getting back to you with a response.

 

I was receiving flame mail from one forum member and in attempting to block him it blocked all mail from the forum. I have removed the block for now and we will see how it goes.

 

Troy I sent your response through your e-mail featue on your web site and so you should have recieved it.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, Bob's e-mail to me was as I expected. I was and continue to be wrong and full of pride. I can live with that.

 

As comments are dwindling on this thread I'll give a last thank you to everyone who has offered their thoughts, both on and off the forum. My website has changed dramatically since I created the initial site last Saturday. The content has improved dramatically because of input from you, and I have had the time to complete almost all of my initial content plans, including a memorial note regarding my brother, Ryan, who passed away in 2001. He was a great scout and an inspiration to many other scouts, not just his brothers. (And by the way, my oldest brother knows I'm not throwing him under the bus just because he earned 56 or so merit badges. Ha ha.) Please feel free to visit it, and please pass along information for the registry. We would greatly appreciate it.

 

I think that with the presentation we have developed we might have at least a chance with National liking the idea. We'll have to see.

 

And if you have further comments, please don't hesitate to throw them at me!

 

Thank you all again.

 

Troy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Yes, Bob's e-mail to me was as I expected. I was and continue to be wrong and full of pride."

 

Tell us again how it is right to design an award on behalf of BSA, for use on the BSA uniform, without involving BSA? It may be a nice thing to do and all that, recognizing Scout's merit badge accomplishments, but someone pointing out that it is wrong does not equate to an attack.

 

Why not design a certificate, or a trophy, or an equipment decoration patch? There's no problem with those things. But when you want to sell your personal version of a BSA award intending for it to be worn on the BSA uniform, don't be surprised if it gets pointed out that it's "wrong".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I hear what you are saying. Please realize that I understand the concept of producing "unofficial" emblems, knots, etc and do not consider opinions contrary to be attacks. Any reference to an attack has been in the manner of delivery. I can handle people opposing my opinion. It happens all the time. And in cases where I agree to change, most people have enough respect to recognize the change without continuing to harass me for my initial position (as in the case of the word "elite" that Bob just loves to highlight).

 

Regarding the correctness of a knot? Please be sure to read my post or website regarding Eagle Palms. Yes, this is still opinion, but not necessarily in left field.

 

Regarding including BSA, please be sure to read my post where I mentioned that I have called BSA but have not received any response back to my message. Yes, I didn't include them in the beginning, but based on the input of the forum I am now. Will I continue to get beat over the head about this also? Is it an appropriate practice to reprimand scouts over and over again for things that you recognize they have learned after you reprimanded them the first time?

 

Let's not let this get ugly. I think that my opinion and position on this pretty clear here in the forum and on my website. I have taken all of your input to heart and am workin through it. If it doesn't work out, then just consider me like the Wood Badge folks who want to have an official knot too.

 

>>>> But if you ever see one of my knots worn on a uniform, patch blanket, hat, or anywhere else, realize that it doesn't represent an egotistical scout or some crazy guy named Troy with an on-the-fringe idea, but that it represents a scout dedicated to knowledge, service and leadership in his troop, and a scout that will probably be a great person to have around your troop or council (obviously referring to the scout wearing the knot--I don't think anyone would think that of me at this point).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just took a tour of your website, and enjoyed the great pictures of your brother. He does look like a great Scout, and I'm sure he's missed by many. I won't say whether I agree or disagree with your efforts...I'm not eligible for the knot anyway. If the BSA agrees to endorse it, more power to you. I also agree that what knots one chooses to wear is a personal decision...there are some here who think we shouldn't wear ANY...even the official BSA ones.

 

Just one comment on your "Registry", though...BSA policy on websites is that Scouts under the age of 18 should not be identified by full names. I don't know the ages of those on your registry, however it might be seen as "good faith" if you adhered to the BSA Youth Protection guidelines, even though yours is a private website. Perhaps a disclaimer that "all Scouts listed on this website are over the age of 18"...or something similar. Perhaps add the year that they earned Eagle...that would be nice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Q; Is a Scout who earns Eagle at 14 MORE of an Eagle Scout than one who earns Eagle at 18?

A: No.

 

Q: Is an Eagle Scout who earns 100+ merit badges MORE of an Eagle Scout than one who earns 21?

A: No

 

Q: Is an Eagle Scout who earns multiple Palms MORE of an Eagle Scout than one who earns none?

A: No

 

After you turn 18 no one cares how many merit badges or Palms you earned, just that you earned Eagle Scout.

 

No one cares.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blade - Reviewing your other posts in other threads today I know you are both familiar with the Insignia Guide and at least some motivational theory involving knots. Because of this I'm not quite understanding your statement in this thread that nobody cares if someone earns more than 21 merit badges.

 

The Insignia Guide specifically states that for scouters Palms are to be worn on the Eagle Scout Knot, thus highlighting additional merit badge achievements. If nobody cared, Palms wouldn't be issued in the first place, and there surely wouldn't be a place for them on an adult uniform.

 

You correctly state in another thread regarding knots that "if you want a certain behavior to increase, reward it." I would think that this would be a complimentary statement to anything you would say on this thread. But it wasn't. So I'm not quite sure where you stand on this issue. Surely you aren't saying that scouts should stop at 21 merit badges or that Palms should be done away with?

 

Also, you may understand this idea better by reading my prior post on Palms.

 

And scoutldr, I'll make sure I follow the guidelines on that. I think the list is compliant currently, but I'll need to check a couple names to make sure. Thanks for the insight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"You correctly state in another thread regarding knots that "if you want a certain behavior to increase, reward it.""

 

Why exactly would the BSA wish to see an increase in the number of Scouts doing many mindless activities, paperwork, etc solely for a patch?

 

I am against any such knot because I see no need for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What really is the case here? I personally see a good case of "groupthink." This is when a group of individuals sheds their individual thoughts and replaces it with the concensus of the group, even though they may not individually follow the group. This causes the group to act and react in different ways than the individuals in the group themselves would act individually. Don't take this as an insult that the members of this forum have become the "borg" from Star Trek. If you think about it, groupthink is rampant everywhere. You can see examples of it all over.

 

Consider the previous post. Is this a call to remove anything that could be construed as mindless activities and paperwork from scouting? There is plenty of it, that's for sure. However, I guess it depends on your perspective. Along with the mindless activity and paperwork there are a lot of skills and lessons learned. After all, the program is meant to prepare boys for fulfilling lives full of achievement, service, and leadership. And how many of our lives are void of mindless activities and paperwork? I would venture to be that those of us who have the funnest professions still have plenty of this on our plates.

 

But is this post a sincere argument against the idea of merit badges all together? Or is it simply going with the group not liking the knot idea? Because frankly, I don't see any correlation to hops' two statement. His final statement should have been that he thinks merit badges should be done away with rather than the idea of a knot for earning all the merit badges. After all, the knot simply represents merit badges and it was the mindless activities and paperwork that merit badges represent that he doesn't like.

 

This is still great feedback, though. I was discussing the whole idea with National yesterday, and I realize that I'm going to need to present a very thorough presentation for them to consider it. And the feedback here lets me know just how people may be thinking of this. If I can address these issues initially with them I'm sure it will have a greater chance of happening, officially.

 

Thank you everyone!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"I was discussing the whole idea with National yesterday, and I realize that I'm going to need to present a very thorough presentation for them to consider it"

 

So, I take it National called you back, or alternatively, you phoned and got through to someone who would/could talk to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Troy

I think what you are missing is that if the BSA decided to introduce a uniform designation for Scouts who earned every merit badge (and keep in mind that earning every merit badge and earning the Eagle Award are separate accomplishments. One does not have to do one in order to do the other) then few if any posters or scouters in general would have a problem with that.

 

I expect the problem that many people have, and that I share, is that YOU believe YOU are special and deserving of more recognition than you feel you have been given by the BSA, and so you are creating an award for yourself for others to see and be impressed by.

 

I believe that the reason you don't just print yourself a certificate, as another poster suggested, is that you want something visible to the public and the scouting community on your uniform that would be rare and unique. You want that because after all you feel you are special and unique among scouters, and we should all see that.

 

The negative feedback you are receiving has nothing to do with group think, but is caused by your own actions to reward yourself based on your personal perception of self-importance.

 

PS

in regards to another posters comment that you will probably get a response soon from the BSA..that probably will not happen.

 

That has nothing to do with the quality of you suggestion, it's just that things do not happen that quickly. It often takes years for a uniform recognition to be approved. Plus, the National office is a little busy right now with projects and activities surrounding the 100th anniversarry as well as their regular business and works in progress.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OGE-You bring up a good point that I will clarify for you. I did call National yesterday to discuss this point. I got to an assistant of one of the people in the Advancement group. She would not pass me through to him as he was not available. I did, however, ask her several questions about the process. She informed me that the Advancement group will be meeting in October and that I can submit a letter. I told her what I was wanting to accomplish. She told me that she has heard of the idea before. I asked her about the deliberations that they make as she informed me that she has sat in the meeting before. She gave me an idea of the process. I asked then if I can have the name of a person I can write to in the mean time to get some feedback from before I present my "official request" to the achievement group and she gave me a name and address. My understanding from my conversation with her is that I will need to have a very well thought out and concise letter for them to review, such as I mentioned in my post.

 

So, if the question is whether I really spoke with someone at National, the answer is yes. Did I speak with the a decision maker? No. Did I speak with someone who could guide me as to my presentation to them as suggested in my post, yes.

 

BW-You bring up the same point again. Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BSA National constantly recieves suggestions and ideas from volunteers and youth. Some of the ideas are wacky and some of them are very good. The wacky ones are politely filtered out. The good ones get reviewed, discussed, debated, and remanded to subcommittee. Eventually, the very, very good ones become part of the Program.

 

Good luck!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×