Troop Uniform Policy?

[Merri 10]

I appreciate all the responses to my question. I guess I should have provided a little background to explain why I question this policy. This troop has never enforced wearing a full class uniform to meetings or other activities. They asked that the boys wear neat khakis or jeans with the uniform shirt if they didn't want to buy the uniform pants/shorts. My son usually opted for khakis.

 

The problem was that many boys didn't. There were boys who wore basketball shorts, flip flops, and even a baseball uniform to meetings. At one CoH, a boy wore bright red basketball shorts. The SMs addressed the issue many times but it kept occurring. I've seen boys show up for trips and meetings in uniform shirts covered with stains, uniform shirts with insignia hanging off or missing, and wearing pants or shorts that I would be ashamed to put in the Goodwill box.

 

When my son was called out for OA, he was told he had to have a full class A uniform so we bought the official uniform pants. He's been wearing them to meetings ever since, as have many of the guys who went through OA with him as well as a lot of the younger, newer, really gung-ho scouts. My son doesn't like the uniform pants (who does?) but he is a good scout (despite having a mom who occasionally questions policies made up by hardworking volunteers) so he wears them.

 

So this "policy" would seem to be aimed to correct a problem caused by a relatively small handful of scouts and was communicated via email in a manner that I found just a little bit highhanded.

 

Add to that, it's not the first policy this troop has made up on the fly. We probably lost a few scouts over the attendance policy. I'd hate to lose any of the new scouts because they can't afford to buy another pair of pants after already purchasing a full class A uniform.

 

Thanks again for all the responses.

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

Kudu writes:

 

"Fuzzy Bear writes:

 

Uniforms build team spirit and are ideal for outdoor adventures.

 

That is more true of the Activity Uniform of Merri's Troop than the BSA Uniform.

 

*Scouts involved in conservation projects may wear work pants or jeans with their Scout shirts.

 

That directly contradicts "Uniform parts should not be worn with other clothing," doesn't it? :-) I doubt if either statement is official policy, because they are not well thought out. If you can wear jeans on conservation projects, why not other community service projects, or for that matter outdoor Scouting activities where the BSA does not expect the official Uniform to be worn? The BSA Website and handbooks are not the final authority. If you look at the Scouts wearing hit pins in the official Boy Scout Handbook, for instance, you will see that they are ALL wearing the adult hat pin."

 

 

BSA writes:

the official BSA handbook, which was quoted.

 

I am unsure of another final authority, save God, now there is a final authority for all of us!

 

As you pointed out and I also realize that pictures are worth 1,000 words but sometimes the words under them have some value as well.

 

FB writes

Sometimes we get far more from a Duck than just a quack and then the bill.

 

FB

 

 

 

[FScouter 24]

If boys are wearing dirty blue jeans or red basketball trunks to meetings, I'd say the adult leadership has failed to successfully implement the uniform method. This is an adult problem, not a boy problem. Writing a "rule" requiring identical street clothes isn't going to fix the problem.

[Beavah 205]

Hi Merri, thanks for the clarification, eh?

 

Sounds like your leaders are doin' their best to respond to a real or perceived need... the "sloppy look" of the troop and lack of commitment to the uniform. So they heard you, and found a middle ground "policy" that would help get the dissenters on board with uniforming, without saddling them with the full expense of the BSA pants. For less money, they can get long pants and shorts in one package, that the boys can wear for other things like playing in the neighborhood or going to school, and that last longer.

 

In short, they lowered the barriers to uniforming to help it happen. Good choice by the PLC or the adults. That's the way to get all the kids and families "on board" with uniforming. Then in a year or two as the boys grow, they can all shift to the new official BSA zip-off pants.

 

Why would you want to object? You didn't object to a bigger expense just for OA. Who wants to get in a fight with other parents over pant purchases? And I bet nobody in your troop would give your son any grief at all if he wanted to continue to wear his old-style BSA pants.

 

I'd suggest instead of worryin' about pants, you send a nice card thankin' your SM for his/her time and effort. And when next you see him, ask if there's anything you can do to help. The more you're a front-line contributor, the more you'll see the youth leadership at work, and understand the way the boys with the adult leaders set program rules. That'll make it seem less "highhanded" I bet.

 

Yah, that's the best way to go.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[evmori 11]

The answer is no. A uniform isn't required for membership.

 

This unit has opted to go with Cafeteria Style Scouting. They think they can pick and choose what they like from the program.

 

That's a broad and unfair assumption based on the info we have been given.

 

This is an adult problem, not a boy problem.

 

FScouter is right on the money here! If the SM & other adult leaders let this go on without doing anything they are the ones at fault.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

[FScouter 24]

Im going to disagree. The only thing positive thing that has happened here is that the adult leaders have recognized the troop does not wear the uniform. What is counter-productive is making up a rule requiring all-the-same pants from the Walmart. This is a lazy approach to a solution. Walmart pants does not a uniform make.

 

The rule is already written on pages 12 and 13 of the Boy Scout Handbook. When adults ignore the program they have sworn to uphold, what lesson does that teach boys? They learn that it is acceptable to use part of the book and ignore other parts. They learn that rules and practices of an organization may be ignored if we invent an excuse or reason that makes us feel good. What other parts of the program are the adults ignoring or short-cutting to make their lives easier?

 

There are a hundred ways to lower to the barriers to correct uniforming; money-earning event, uniform closet, etc, etc. etc. Dont be fooled. All-the-same Walmart clothing may be uniform, but all-the-same Walmart clothing is not the BSA uniform.

[dan 10]

Merri

Are the scouts allowed to wear the official pants or shorts?

OR

Is the troop mandating that they can only wear the campmor pants?

 

 

[EagleInKY 14]

You know, I usually fall on the Uniform Police side of most arguments. But in this case, I'm not that bothered by this. I'm assuming these zip-off pants look very similar to the scout uniform (approx color, etc.). So, if it's a way of getting them more "uniform", then I'm all for it. If they're khaki colored or heaven-forbid camo-design, then I'd clearly be against it.

 

A few years back Walmart had a pair of shorts that looked just like the official Boy Scout shorts. The only differences were that the pockets were a little bigger and they didn't have the official BSA snaps. I know a troop that bought a whole bunch of them to help outfit their boys. From 20 feet you couldn't tell they weren't wearing the official uniform.

 

It used to be the BSA uniform quality was apparent, and they were always identical. I have two pairs of pants, two pairs of shorts, plus my son has a pair of pants and shorts. I don't think any two are the same color. Most of them vary by a shade, but a couple of them are obviously a different color, and have been from the time I purchased them.

 

One word of caution, Merri. As quickly as these non-uniform pants show up, they may disappear off of campmor's site. So your uniform may only be uniform for a short period of time.

[Beavah 205]

Rant Warning (not for you, Merri... for my fellow old codgers)

 

I really do get into my Scottish-American stubborn streak when people start callin' fellow volunteers "lazy," suggest that they should leave da BSA, or that others should start arguments with them in their unit committees, or that we all should treat pants the same as youth protection. Get a grip on your toasters, people. How many units have we heard about on these forums that are rippin' themselves apart over silly adult disputes? How many kids quit or units die over such things? How much adult attrition do we get? And yeh want to start new disputes over pants??!

 

I've been a commissioner for 15 years in 2 councils and 3 districts, and a unit and district volunteer a lot longer than that. I have never once, not ever, anywhere, seen any troop follow every jot, tiddle, and comma of the BSA guidelines. But I've seen a lot of great programs that deserve the unqualified support and applause of cheerful, friendly, courteous, and kind parents and fellow scouters.

 

Stop frettin' your bones over trivia! It's da MISSION people!!

 

 

From Fuzzy's post on the reasons for uniforming in the BSA books:

 

"It is part of the thrill of being a Scout." Yah, right. Haven't seen a kid thrilled by it recently. So maybe a troop can do better, eh?

 

"When you put it on, you feel ready for hiking, camping, and other Scout activities." Yah, right. Does anyone believe this? It's ridiculous. So maybe a troop can do better, eh?

 

"You will show that you are equals in the spirit of brotherhood." Can't get this, since the uniform makes distinctions between boys of varying ranks. Adults are great at this with rows of knots and beads and such, to make themselves distinct, not equal. Sports uniforms are better at demonstratin' equality. And when some boys can afford new, well-fit pants for just BSA meetings and other boys can only afford beat up used stuff from the troop closet, or off-color look-alikes that they can also wear to school, dat helps with equality eh? So maybe a troop can do better.

 

"You will be recognized throughout the world as a Scout." Yah, right. The world is full of different scout uniforms. The only real standardard clothing that signifies "I am a scout" worldwide is the neckerchief (often worn over plainclothes). And for us, neckers are too small and optional. Maybe a troop can do better, eh?

 

"Uniforms build team spirit and are ideal for outdoor adventures." Yah, right. Team spirit only when they get to the point when the team members are proud to wear them in public. And ideal for outdoor adventures? Maybe a troop can do better, eh?

 

"Wear your complete uniform correctly and proudly at all Scouting events." Yah, that's hysterical, eh? We all know that the uniform comes off as soon as there is activity rather than ceremony. But a troop uniform might do better, eh?

 

Deliverin' the Scouting Program means using da methods and other tools to make things work the way they should for the kids in the program. Adults who teach kids to serve the bureaucratic letter of the law but not the intent and spirit of the law need some time off from Scoutin' to get their head clear, IMNSHO.

 

It's about da mission, eh?

 

End Rant, and my thanks for your patience and your listenin' with a kind ear.(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[acco40 95]

Some things are hot button issues. Should infants in the USA be breast fed? Yes. So states many pediatricians, nutritionists, MDs, etc. Does that mean that mothers who do not breast feed their babies are bad mothers? Of course not.

 

Should Scouts wear the uniform (see SM Handbook description of activity uniform)? Yes. Should Scouters use the methods of Scouting, one of which is the Uniform, in carrying out their program? Yes. I fully agree with FScouter on this.

 

Now, Beavah, nobody asked about how big of an issue this may be. Yes, other things are much more important but we were asked a question and many responded with, as I may be so bold to say, the correct answer. A Boy Scout troop can set their own uniform policy (as Eamon pointed out, yours has!) However, a Boy Scout troop may not set their own policy except in the areas of hat, neckerchief and activity shirt.

 

On a personal note, I have Scouts in our troop the correct pieces (shirt, pants, socks, belt, neckerchief, etc.) but the shirt is half unbuttoned, shirt tail out, hat askew, etc. This irks me, especially during a flag ceremony. Now, we also have to remember that boys of this age are testing limits. That is a part of adolescence. We do have to pick and choose our battles and look at the big picture when making decisions. That is why we, as volunteers are paid the big bucks!(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Merri 10]

Sorry, I can't figure out how to respond to individual posts.

 

Dan, I have confirmed with the SM that my son can wear his current official uniform pants and the new zip-off uniform pants when those come out. I've suggested that option be offered to all the scouts but at least one person in the troop leadership is pushing hard for all the boys to have the same pants from campmor. EagleinKY, those pants are khaki.

[dan 10]

Thanks Merri, I do not believe there is a way to respond to one post.

 

If it was me, I would most likely purchase the campmor pants and use them for campouts.

But I would keep the adult leadership informed that sometimes we might want the official pants or shorts, wood badge, NYLT, OA....

[OldGreyEagle 5]

At some point you have to decide is it better to go along to get along or to speak the truth. What this troop is doing is wrong, that doesnt mean it wont happen. It dosent mean that if they show up at a District/Council event they will be sent home, what it says is that this troop doesnt have much a regard for the uniform method of scouting. Is this is a big deal? I dont know. What kind of example does this give the youth? That one I know, a tremoundously lousy one!

[SR540Beaver 116]

Anything worth doing.....is worth doing right.

 

As someone else pointed out, boys at this age excel in testing limits. Deciding to "change" the uniform in order to get the boys "uniform" is a compromise that will lead to further compromises until your program doesn't resemble a Troop in any way, shape or form. Meetings are boring, lets have them every two weeks instead of every week. It is hot in the summer and cold in the winter, could we cabin camp or maybe just stay home during those times? Fundraisers and service projects take up too much time, couldn't we just count our fundraiser as service time? Sure, you could do those things thinking it might make the boys happier and keep them engaged. They will just move on to the next "limit" to test.

[Lisabob 13]

Merri, if it were my son's troop, I'd be annoyed too that I'd already gone out and spent money on the correct uniform, only to be told I had to buy some other pants that aren't technically part of the uniform in addition. Let's face it, $25 is $25 and I can think of plenty of other things to spend it on. Call me cheap but I already bought boy scout pants, I expect my son to wear them, and I don't intend to pay more for a pair of "psuedo" scout pants just because someone got a bee in their bonnet.

 

So. If the troop goes ahead with its new policy and the one person keeps pushing hard to say that the boys MUST all wear these non-BSA zip offs, that's when, as a parent, I'd start talking to the committee and the SM about it. If they decide instead that the boys may wear EITHER the official BSA pants OR these non-BSA zip offs, well I might disagree but I'd probably not make a real big deal about it. I also wouldn't buy the non-uniform pants for my kid though. That's just my take and I know others would approach in different ways.

 

All that said, I do agree with several other posters that there are better ways to deal with the uniforming issue than this one though.

 

Lisa'bob