fotoscout 15 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Before anyone has the temptation to take this out of context...I am not mocking the golden rule of Praise in public, reprimand in private, just using it make a point. Link to post Share on other sites
scoutdad 10 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Without debating the merits of the many methods proposed here, I would like to point out that all focus on the negatives. What might be a better response to scouts not wearing the uniform properly is to select from each den/patrol the very best example of a properly uniformed scout to come forward and be recognized. Nobodys feeling could be hurt, a few scouts would be proud, and rest would be determined to "be up front" next time. YIS Scoutdad Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted November 7, 2003 Author Share Posted November 7, 2003 And I would see scoutdad's approach as scout-like. It's helpful,friendly, courteous and kind. Sorry foto but i do not see your method as mocking "praise in public, criticize in private", I see it as simply ignoring it and mocking the child, and I would bet the scout and others would think the same thing. Scoutdad's suggestion is the way to go. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
fotoscout 15 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Bob, When youre right, youre right. Scoutdads method is the very best we can do! But project that method across some span of time. In particular, take the kid I am talking about. Remember that this kids clothing is an offshoot of what appears to be, at the very least, the familys defiance to wearing the uniform correctly. This kid will in all likelihood never wear a proper uniform, not in CS and not in BS. But he does come to most meetings! Across the program there are many kids like this one who will never be in the uniform that you and I would like to see them in. This boy will endure many years of never being up front as Scoutdad put it. At each den meeting, and at each pack meeting, someone else will be up front. Slowly but surely you are eating away at this kid. You are embarrassing him and humiliating him! Not in a single watershed event, but over a longer span of time. Unfortunately its not only him, but all the other boys that will never make it up front. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 fotoscout, I don't agree. Families defiance to wearing the uniform correctly? Never seen this before. If he is never "up front" then he is never "up front". He doesn't deserve to be for this. Maybe he will be "up front" for something else. Maybe not. Either way, he is not being embarrassed or humiliated by anyone. If he was "up front" because he was not in proper uniform then your statement would be true. Not everyone will be "up front". And there is nothing wrong with that! Ed Mori 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 "This boy will endure many years of never being up front as Scoutdad put it. At each den meeting, and at each pack meeting, someone else will be up front. Slowly but surely you are eating away at this kid. You are embarrassing him and humiliating him! Not in a single watershed event, but over a longer span of time. Unfortunately its not only him, but all the other boys that will never make it up front. " What about school assemblies that recognize the students with good grades? Don't those embarass all the students who don't get good grades? I've heard that many schools have abolished honor rolls for that reason. First dodge ball and now honor rolls. I've seen kids and parents who are resistant to wearing a uniform. If he really wants to be "up front"," he can pressure his parents to get him a uniform or to let him wear it properly. If his dad tells him, "No son, I'm against uniforms because they smack of militarism," maybe the kid will then take pride in his lack of a uniform. Or his might decide that his dad is a butthead. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted November 7, 2003 Author Share Posted November 7, 2003 Foto, Although you have no control over how the parents or others treat the scout, you have absolute and total control over how YOU treat him. You need to do the right thing. Mimmicking the scout in front of others is not the right thing to do no matter how you try to rationalize it. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
Wallace 10 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 As far a Cubs go... Another approach might be to talk about proper uniforming at the Den meeting before the Pack meeting. Then at the Pack meeting, adults have the "funny" uniforms and have the boys do the inspection. The boys are better and more critical at this than we might think. As far as the example that Bob White mentioned, I think it borders on hazing a shows a real lack of understanding of the temperment of young boys by the leader. At our last Pack Meeting, a boy (not in my den) showed up again with a neckerchief and no slide. I carry a few, small 1/2 pvc pipe connectors with me to meetings. I gave him one, put it on him and said that at the next Pack Meeting, he needed to add something to it. I did not care what he glued on it but that he "needed to make it his." At least two times at the meeting he came up to me to explain his ideas of what to do with the slide. I did not berate him or make an example of him...just tried to set him on the correct path. If he forgets it again or does not do what he promised he would do, I will try another approach. In general I try to ignore the boys blunders and over-support their accomplishments. More carrot..less stick. Link to post Share on other sites
scoutdad 10 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 I believe that every scout is at some point and in some way worthy of praise. Believing that, I would rotate who is selected as " the very best". But I cant stop there, the scout that is never dressed properly needs positive attention too. I would look carefully for some aspect of his scouting experience that was positive and let him know what a good job he was doing. Maybe with a little pride the next week that uniform might just improve a little. I think Wallace has a good attitude and I like his style. YIS Scoutdad Link to post Share on other sites
Eamonn 61 Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 "More carrot, less stick" I have never heard this before. I think that it is outstanding. Thank you Wallace. Eamonn Link to post Share on other sites
EagleInKY 14 Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I took over a pack 5 years ago that had a horrible standard of uniforming. I was dismayed by the boys and leaders who came to meetings not in uniform or in totally inappropriate uniforms such as the one mentioned at the start of this thread. I tackled it on several fronts. First, I felt that it would be too intimidating for the Cubmaster to pull any individual Cub aside. So I challenged the Den Leaders to raise the bar on their own uniforming as well as their dens. This helped, and we saw some immediate improvement. Second, we had periodic surprise uniform inspections at Pack Meetings. They were done as the boys came in. It was a simple checklist - neat appearance, proper uniform shirt, belt and hat, clean jeans or slacks, proper insignia sewed on (I get so tired of kids wearing two years of rank advancments on safety pins!). We recognized the dens that had the best score, but did not point out any individuals (for good or bad uniforms). Third, we did a form of the skit that was mentioned. But we didn't use any outrageously bad uniforms. I just inspected the leaders and pointed out what they did good or bad (and they, in turn, inspected me). It was good for a laugh or two. Over the period of 6 months or so, we saw a tremendous improvement. However, most of the improvement came from the younger Cubs. The older ones were accustomed to the bad habits, and were harder to change. Link to post Share on other sites
fotoscout 15 Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Hello Everybody, Lets try this out for a uniform incentive. A friend of mine suggested this method. What do you think of it? A very quick uniform inspection at the beginning of the den meeting. At the end of den meeting raffle off a small toy. Do this each weeek at the den meetings. Only the properly uniformed scouts are in the raffle. He defines properly uniformed like this; Shirt, neckerchief, slide, badges on the uniform, hat, and an acceptable long sleeve shirt under the uniform shirt if its being worn. Any dark pants, (not sweat pants) are acceptable. Any shoes. Link to post Share on other sites
FScouter 24 Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Sounds like a great idea. I'd suggest that only the Scouts in uniform be eligible. The boys missing pants or other uniform parts aren't eligble. How would it look if the one boy wearing a complete uniform loses out to another wearing blue jeans? Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted December 9, 2003 Author Share Posted December 9, 2003 http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=36672#id_36851 http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=3347&p=4#id_23574 Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
Big_Dog 10 Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Just a quick interjection - Did ya'll catch the article about "Scouts reaching out to minorities"? Nice pic of two fine looking young lads in uniform. http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/gwinnett/1203/08scouts.html Nice article about scouting. It's good to hear positive news about Scouting. bd Link to post Share on other sites
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