National Guide to Advancement and Eagle Scout Service Project Workbook Revision Survey

[bnelon44]

This months survey is devoted to feedback for the second editions of the Guide to Advancement and the Eagle Scout Service Project Workbook, both scheduled

for release in the first quarter of 2013. Currently, two volunteer task forces formed out of the national Advancement Committees Advisory Panel are going through both publications in detail. Their findings will be combined with yours if you are able to take the time to complete this critical survey.

 

Note that anonymous responses are not accepted for any of the Advancement News surveys. This is primarily because of the importance the national Advancement Team places on the ability to communicate with survey respondents should more information be needed about their answers.

 

Completing the survey will take approximately 20 minutes, depending on the details of your responses. It will be helpful, but not required, if you are able to consult the

Guide to Advancement as you provide your answers.

 

If you have suggestions for either the Guide or the workbook that do not fit in the space provided in the survey, please consider sending a detailed email message to advancement.team@scouting.org.

 

http://scouting.us.qualtrics.com/SE/?SID=SV_bdvI1BlCcXJ9E57

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmm....

 

Didn't this thing just come out?

 

Are we on da G2SS revision-every-three-months cycle now?

 

Seriously, stability is a good thing. I doubt that the thing has even made it out to most corners yet, eh? Perhaps folks should let things settle a bit.

 

Beavah

 

[Eagle92]

Either A) I spent too much time reviewing the book and service project workbook before commenting, B) I'm an opinionated old fogey who wrote a lot of critques, or C) All the Above, But it took me 1:35 minutes to do that survey.

 

20 minutes, YEAH RIGHT.

 

EDITED: thanks for the link!(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

[bnelon44]

Beavah: The GTA came out in 2011, then next version is scheduled to come out the spring of 2013. So it is a 2 year cycle I guess

 

Eagle92: Took me 45 min

[Eagle92]

Bnelon,

 

A couple of quick questions for ya since you seem to be in the know about this.

 

1) You stated the survey is computer adaptive based upon your answers, is that the case?

 

2) I noticed none of the questions asked about Sea Scouts, where they left out again?

 

3) If computer adaptive,I left out a unit level leadership position, Mate or Skipper(don't ask, I didn't know I was registered with the ship until after the fact, and I never got a clear answer on the exact position. Would that affect why I had no questions on Sea Scouts?

 

4) #3 is yes, should I redo, focusing on Sea Scouts to get those answers?

 

From what I read of the G2A, the only thing the committee got right is that there are no alternatives for Sea Scout ranks. They completely missed the fact that Sea Scouts do have mandatory attendance requirements, 75% of unit functions if memory serves, for X amount of time. Also a Sea Scout BOR is very different from an BS BOR in that they can retest you for information.

 

[bnelon44]

>1) You stated the survey is computer adaptive based upon your answers, is that the case?

 

To a very limited extent, yes.

 

>2) I noticed none of the questions asked about Sea Scouts, where they left out again?

 

Not sure why, I'm not that privy to the development of the survey

 

>3) If computer adaptive,I left out a unit level leadership position, Mate or Skipper(don't ask, I didn't know I was registered with the ship until after the fact, and I never got a clear answer on the exact position. Would that affect why I had no questions on Sea Scouts?

 

I don't think there are specific Sea Scout questions.

 

>4) #3 is yes, should I redo, focusing on Sea Scouts to get those answers? From what I read of the G2A, the only thing the committee got right is that there are no alternatives for Sea Scout ranks. They completely missed the fact that Sea Scouts do have mandatory attendance requirements, 75% of unit functions if memory serves, for X amount of time. Also a Sea Scout BOR is very different from an BS BOR in that they can retest you for information.

 

There is no nationally mandated Sea Scout attendance requirement for all Sea Scouts. There is a rank requirement for attendance for all ranks above Apprentice, but that is particular to the rank and should be considered a rank requirement. So it wouldnt be in the GTA, just like the individual Boy Scout requirements for Boy Scout Ranks are not in the GTA.

 

There is no retesting for Bridge of Reviews, see GTA section 4.4.2.3 Conducting the Bridge of Review

 

[NJCubScouter]

This time I agree with Beavah. There should be no need to come out with a new version of the Guide to Advancement every two years. On the other hand, the BSA seems to be into a rapid revision cycle for things in general. The requirements were revised along with the new handbook about two years ago, and now I have been reading about a major revision of the requirements expected in about three years. (Or was it two?) I wonder if they are also planning a new edition of the handbook at that time, which would be a much shorter interval than usual. And if they make a really major revision of the requirements without a new handbook, that will make a real mess. We had enough problems with kids using the old handbook but having to go by the requirements in the new one. That has mostly worked itself out by the passage of time, the only remaining glitch is the EDGE requirement for Life.

[bnelon44]

NJCubScouter,

 

It was a decade or something before the last advancement book was written. National received TONS of questions and TONS of appeals. Most of the problems were people didn't know the correct processes and policies. That is why a whole new rewrite, the GTA was published. Of course when you put out an entire rewrite, there will be questions and suggested improvements. That is the reason for the 2013 edition. Will there be a 2015 edition? Who knows, probably depends on need.

 

Rank requirements are not listed in the GTA. Requirements are in a separate publication for every program. For Boy Scouts, the definitive reference for requirements is the Boy Scout Requirements book, which is published on a yearly cycle.(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

[NJCubScouter]

So I am going to need to block out 45 minutes to an hour-plus to do this? That's good to know. Um, is there a deadline? And it can't be my 18th birthday, I already let that deadline go by about 35 years ago.

[bnelon44]

It really all depends on how much you want to comment on your answers. I suppose you could get it done in 10min.

[NJCubScouter]

bnelon,

 

Thanks. I am aware of what subjects are covered in which books when it comes to advancement. I was not saying the advancement requirements are in the GTA, I know they are not. I was merely drawing an analogy between what appears to be a plan to revise the new GTA after only two years, and the apparent intent to make a major revision to the advancement requirements that would take effect only four or five years after a new Scout Handbook, and concluding that the BSA generally seems to be making revisions too quickly for those of us out here in the hinterlands (i.e. the people who are supposed to actually be administering this process at the ground level) to keep up. It's just my opinion. As for the Boy Scouts Requirements Book being the definitive source for advancement requirements, I know about that too, and I have always had a problem with it and have mentioned that opinion in this forum a couple of times. Our families buy a handbook for their sons, and they generally buy it once. When a new handbook comes out, they generally don't buy it if their son has the old one. The one major exception was when I was a Scout in 1972 and a new handbook came out that was SO different, with the advancement requirements not only changed but completely reorganized, that you really needed the new handbook. (It may be that some Scouts who were already First Class or above got by without the new book; it wasn't an issue for me because my father (who at the time was an ASM and a former and future SM) was a BSA publications fanatic and always bought the new thing as soon as it came out -- and I now have several boxes of books to prove it.)

 

Anyway, so our Scouts have their handbooks, and that is where their requirements are and that is where their requirements are signed off. Very few people have the up-to-date Requirements book. The troop doesn't even have the current version as far as I am aware. I don't have one. When the requirements change we do the best we can to make sure that the boys are following the requirements that are in effect for them for that rank. Troopmaster helps with that somewhat, because the annual updates basically produce an up-to-date checklist of what the Scout needs to do for their next rank, which supersedes what's in the handbook. But in my opinion, it is too confusing and it is unnecessary. I believe the requirements should only be changed between editions of the handbook if there is an "emergency," so that changes in requirements between new editions of the handbook become very rare. What we have instead is different printings of the same edition of the handbook so what looks like the same edition really isn't when it comes to the requirements, and a year or two later even the newest printing may be out of date. And we have different boys working on different versions of the requirements at the same time, because they are generally "grandfathered" for the rank they are working on when the requirements change, except sometimes there is a cutoff date beyond which they are supposed to switch to the new requirements. If you can't tell, this is a pet peeve of mine.

 

Added note: So where do I send that feedback? But I probably wouldn't even bother, because I seem to be swimming against the tide of history.(This message has been edited by njcubscouter)

[Eagle92]

B,

 

I know what the GTA says about Bridges of Review.

 

But I am willing to bet a DEATH BY CHOCOLATE Dutch oven cake that the folks who wrote those policies know nothing about Sea Scouts, and how things are done in that program.

 

I also know what actually happens having sat through 2, and what other Sea Scouts and leaders have been through and done.

[bnelon44]

>But I am willing to bet a DEATH BY CHOCOLATE Dutch oven cake that the folks who wrote those policies know nothing about Sea Scouts, and how things are done in that program.

 

You'd lose the bet big time

[bnelon44]

NJCubScouter

 

Comments and suggestions can be sent to:

 

advancement.team@scouting.org

 

If your troop doesn't have a current Boy Scout Requirements book they don't have the current requirements. You can't really blaim the BSA if the troop doesn't keep up.(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

[Eagle92]

Well, who are they and what is their Sea Scout experience?

 

Seriously in my limited experiences with Irving, only 3 folks knew anything about Sea Scouts: Holmes, Christopher, and Christopher's secretary ( sorry forgot her name).

 

And even then their experiences are not as unit leaders, but as national level support folks.

 

But if I am wrong, please let me know and I will send ya that cake. I actually would love to be wrong on this.