Eagle Recommendation

[Stosh]

I have a boy that has been doing just enough to get buy. Now that I've signed his application for Eagle he has pulled a stunt that far exceeds his slacking off. He took his patrol and left a camporee early without any adult approval. He called another parent to come and pick them up and then snuck out of camp.

 

I still have to make a written recommendation as his SM. (I'm thinking he didn't know this part of the process, he's indicated he's in the clear to get his Eagle and then is going to quit the troop.)

 

My question is, if I do not recommend this scout at the present time, will he be able to reapply again when he gets his act together? Or do I sit on the recommendation because he can apply only once?

 

Stosh

[ScoutNut]

Where does BSA state that the SM must make a written recommendation for Eagle?

 

This boy did not act alone when he left the camporee. Have you spoken this boy about his actions? Have you spoken to any of the other boys in the patrol about what they did? Have you spoken to the parent who picked them up?

 

How can an entire patrol "sneak" out of camp? Did they leave their gear and tents?

 

What, if anything, has been done about what happened at the camporee?

 

[Twocubdad]

Stosh, I know you're steamed about this, but objectively reading the info you've posted in the other thread, this doesn't sound like a capital offense. In the other thread you wrote that the patrol walked to the main gate and met their ride there instead of at the parking lot where they were supposed to be. They left camp only 15-20 minutes ahead of the other patrol. I understand the problem they caused you by not following procedure and checking out with the rest of the troop (for all you knew they were at the bottom of the lake). It sounds like they knew they were doing something they shouldn't and did a pretty good con job on a couple adults in the process. If I had to spend a Sunday afternoon tracking down this patrol I, too, would be highly P.O.'d and would be looking for my pound of flesh.

 

But you've also said you've dealt with that situation by removing the Eagle candidate as patrol leader. That seems appropriate. In our troop, I have the authority to immediately suspend Scouts for up to a month. I might suspend the entire patrol for a couple weeks, just to make sure they (and the other Scouts in the troop) understand how serious we are about accountability.

 

But the Eagle app is different. My understanding (based on situation in a nearby troop which went through appeal) is that once the application has the SM's signature, it's pretty much a done deal. As Scoutnut notes, the SM recommendation must be a local thing. It's not a national requirement so withholding it won't mean much.

 

If you really feel holding up the boy's Eagle is the right direction, you should ask to speak before his Board of Review. Here, because BoRs are conducted by the troop with a district representative, I would have may CC and troop adv. chm. on board and agree on a direction prior to the board of review. If your Boards are conducted by the district or council, a meeting with the advancement chairman is appropriate. If they see fit, the board can deny the Scout's advancement but must provde him with a plan for correcting the problem. Certainly, you need to be involved in crafting the plan.

 

Given the boy's goal of getting through Eagle so he can quit, a requirement to spend three to six months making this up to you may be a pretty effective solution.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[John-in-KC]

In the Council I serve, the Scoutmaster, who is on the app automatically as one of the reference, must do a reference.

 

All I will say Stosh, is this is lifetime. I've never heard of a Scout being turned down for Eagle and not coming back later on a new application.

 

Are you sure you want the second order consequences which may come with it? Do you interact with his parents in the community, either in business, in church, or in civic activity? Are you going to burn bridges with them? Can you accept that you may be overturned on an appeal, by District, by Council, or by National? Can you accept that you'll be in for some tough questioning 2-6 weeks from now, when the Eagle Board asks you for clarification?

 

Remember: Even denying him your recommendation, by way of signing the Eagle Application, is a an appealable event by ACP&P.

 

Methinks the better thing would be for you and your bride to take the kid to supper, and have a long friendly talk over food about what happened and why. Room for him to apologize, room for you to forgive. After all, as others have said, you've already set consequences for what happened.

[Beavah]

My question is, if I do not recommend this scout at the present time, will he be able to reapply again when he gets his act together? Or do I sit on the recommendation because he can apply only once?

 

Yah, he can apply more than once.

 

How yeh proceed just depends on how yeh feel this lad and the other boys in the troop will learn the most, eh?

 

Yeh can sit on it, and tell him why. That can be a nice informal way to go.

 

If yeh want to be more formal, you can say "no", and tell him what the appeal process is.

 

If yeh want to be still more firm and formal, yeh can suspend him or give him the boot.

 

I'm sorta with TwoCubDad, eh? I'm not quite sure the lad needs to be nailed to the wall on this. Perhaps tacked to the wall.

 

From afar, it sort of feels like this boy has been gettin' under your skin for a while. This particular incident seems like it was more like da stone that caused the avalanche in your mind. Problem is, when stones (even big ones!) cause avalanches it's usually because we've allowed big rock piles to build up that we shouldn't have.

 

Regardless of how yeh proceed with this lad, I think yeh need to readjust your notion of "just enough to get by". Just enough to get by should still be something that you and your program are proud of, not somethin' that you're disappointed with.

 

Yeh have to do what you think is right, but I'd begin by takin' responsibility for your part of the rock pile. That stone that started da avalanche needs to be dealt with, too, of course. But in the end it's only one stone.

 

I'd think to myself "how much can I reasonably expect this lad to grow in the time left?" Do what it takes to get to that standard of reasonable character growth for the boy, even if it isn't the final outcome you'd hope for him. Then readjust your program so that yeh get to that final outcome yeh want for boys like him in da future.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Stosh]

Update:

 

I have visited with his parents and are both on the same page that what I decide is the course of action they will support.

 

I have visited with CC and agreed that both he and I had signed the application and that was proper at the time.

 

I have visited with the UC and he suggested that I sit on the recommendation for a minimum of 6 months to offer the boy the opportunity to get his act together.

 

I have visited with the Eagle Council Committee Chair and he suggested I sit on the recommendation for a period of time to give the boy a chance to correct not only the situation but his attitude and giving him some time to mature in his leadership skills.

 

The boy called to apologize for the miscommunication, but said he had delegated off the decision for their action to one of the boys of the patrol and wouldn't take responsibility for the problems that the boy caused. In other words, he threw him under the bus.

 

The boy will miss this week's meeting, but should be available to discuss further, with parents and CC present.

 

I am leaning towards the UC and Eagle Chairman's suggestion and hold off on the recommendation which is required before a EBOR can be convened.

 

Twocubdad: I don't think I'm as steamed as I am disappointed. Both in the boy and in my inability to deal with his attitude. I'm bending over backwards trying to make an opportunity for this boy and not have any feelings of vindication interfere in these decisions. Everything I do, I want it to be for the boy and not his Eagle status.

 

Stosh

 

[Eamonn]

Stosh

You know this Lad.

You know if what you intend to do is or isn't the right thing.

It would be far to easy for any of us to sit at our keyboards and try and second guess what needs to be done or should be done.

Can you do what you are thinking of doing?

It seems that you can.

Still at the end of the day you have to determine if it's the right thing and the fair thing to do.

No one said this was always going to be easy.

Ea.

[OldGreyEagle]

Even as you read this, some where the surgeon who just did enough to graduate from his Surgery Residency is scheduled to do surgery, perhaps in 5 minutes, maybe tomorrow, perhaps next week, but that surgeon is still a recognized, licensed surgeon.

 

Whatever minimum that was attained, was attained by those doing the supervision and we all hope their standards are "high Enough" for the safety of future patients.

 

When you say the scout just got by, was he "good enough" or not? If he was, he didn't just "get by" he fulfilled the requirements as judged by someone else. If you think the "stunt" he pulled is unworthy of an Eagle and the paperwork has already gone in be sure the Eagle Board of Review knows about the situation. A scout may sit for an Eagle Board of Review without a Scoutmaster signing off on the application, although again, the members of the BOR should know the circumstances of the situation.

 

The kid screwed up, is it enough to rescind his membership in your unit? Suspend him? Was he Eagle quality before this happened?

[nolesrule]

"Even as you read this, some where the surgeon who just did enough to graduate from his Surgery Residency is scheduled to do surgery, perhaps in 5 minutes, maybe tomorrow, perhaps next week, but that surgeon is still a recognized, licensed surgeon. "

 

Do you know what they call the person who graduates last in his class at medical school?

 

Doctor.

[Beavah]

Even as you read this, some where the surgeon who just did enough to graduate from his Surgery Residency is scheduled to do surgery

 

Yah, I'm not really sure how medicine works, eh? But I can speak to some other professions, and generally speakin' graduatin' at the minimums leaves you unemployed. Yeh need the strong recommendations of those who were supervisin' you in order to land any position. If yeh don't have that, yeh have to look for lower-grade internships, post-docs, or temp positions until yeh build up your skills and commitment and get those stronger recommendations.

 

I do agree with da sentiment, though. We should be settin' the bar high enough in scouting that an Eagle who meets our bare minimums is a lad to be proud of who will inspire our other youth and be a strong representative of da program. If we haven't set da bar that high, then it's our fault, and we need to address that.

 

Good luck with it jblake. You know the lad and all the players. Do what you think is right for the boy and your program.

 

Beavah

 

[Stosh]

As we all know there are a ton of "different" way of handling common problems. Even councils differ as do districts and troops. The nice thing about the forum is one gets a wider view at the many options out there.

 

Yes, the ultimate decision is mine and yet it's important to get as much input as necessary before making a decision as important as this one.

 

I don't do the knee jerk kinda decision making that others do just fine with. I figure when I get all the options into consideration I'll be able to cherry pick the best for the boy and his growth.

 

This is serious, but it's nothing that will bring the universe crashing down on us in the next few days. Time is on my side and this boy has enough cushion to get his act together in the next few months.

 

Stosh

[Stosh]

Update:

 

Had a SM conference with this Eagle candidate and it was decided 1) he wasn't going to be kicked out of scouts because of his stunt, 2) he wasn't going to get off scott-free either.

 

I have 2 older boys, one of which will be aging out in January leaving me with this other Eagle candidate as senior scout.

 

It was decided he was to "step down" from SPL/PL of the older boys and another boy would take over as PL and SPL position would remain open because it really wasn't needed in a 2 patrol troop.

 

The Eagle candidate did a great job his first year with him as a PL of the new scouts and they all progressed and the patrol was quite successful. He's going back into that role but on a troop level. At first he saw this process as punishment, but I told him it's an opportunity to actually do some leadership and that the success of the 2 PL's and any other POR was in his hands.

 

He asked me what his POR was to be. I said no patch on the sleeve, but he's going to need to function as TG, Instructor, SPL, JASM and anything else he can think of to show his leadership.

 

His father (my ASM) sat in on the SM Conference and was pleased with how it was handled and the second chance his boy got. We both agreed that the ball is now in his son's court.

 

Thanks to all on the forum who offered up their input and recommendations.

 

Stosh