POR easy/hard

[IM_Kathy]

is it just me or does it seem like some of the POR are so much easier than others? I wish they weighted them so that those that are "tougher" were given more credit for the work they do.

 

For our troop the Librian, Historian, and Scribe are some of the positions that boys just can't wait to do because they really don't have to do much.

 

SPL is of course one of the toughest jobs seen by the boys in the troop, but I have to say that a good DC does a whole lot more especially when you take into account that the boy attends his regular troop meetings, the den meetings, troop outtings, and pack events.

 

I'm quite thankful that my son (DC) doesn't have a job yet to try and squeaze into his schedule, but since he's not a DC for a den his parents lead (that's often the case around here) I sure wish he was old enough to drive himself LOL

 

anyway, I just wanted to hear others thoughts on this. Is there a way to make sure boys aren't always going for the "easy POR"? Is there a way to make those POR more indepth so they aren't so "easy"?

[gwd-scouter]

Many troops assign PORs because a boy 'needs' one for advancement. This, in my mind, leads to the impression of easy PORs. Any POR can be considered easy if the scout merely wears a patch on his sleeve. If your troop doesn't have a library of handbooks or merit badge books to check out, then there is really no need for a librarian. If your historian is not documenting all your outings, then he doesn't really have a job to do. In other words, do not assign a POR if there isn't a clear definition of the job requirements and, more importantly, an understanding between the scout and the SPL/SM that those requirements will be fulfilled.

 

At one time, our Scribe POR was considered easy. Take attendance - that's it. Now, our Scribe collects money for all the outings and makes sure everyone is paid up before giving the money to our Treasurer. He takes notes at the PLC meetings and then sends me an email with an outline for the upcoming month. Yep, real work to do.

 

I think a lot of times folks think that because a guy isn't in one of the out front leadership type PORs (SPL, PL, Troop Guide, Den Chief), that his job is easy. Some guys are well-suited for those up front jobs and make them look easy, but perhaps do not possess the skills or desire necessary to do the more organizational type PORs. I know a lad in our Troop that was a wonderful SPL, but he would have been a disaster as Scribe.

 

A POR can be as in depth as any other. You just have to set clear expectations of what the job is, train your scouts, and then require those holding a POR to live up to those expectations.

 

As a side note, both of my sons served in many PORS but Den Chief was by far their favorite.

[Stosh]

The POR positions are what the troop makes them to be. If wearing the patch and getting advancement credit is all that is necessary, then ALL of the POR's are easy, even SPL. Librarian? If I ask a question about something in the scout handbook (library book) can that person provide the information? After all my library has a reference desk where I can ask real questions. Does the Scribe keep track of all the advancement reports that are handed in, record them and pass them on to the adult responsible for keeping track on digital records? Does the chaplain's aide lead vespers every Friday and Saturday night and have a small devotional on Sunday morning or does he just cop out with Philmont prayer at every meal? Is the Bugler the first up every morning, ready to signal every change of activity that occurs to communicate to the patrols? Can he gather up the troop for an informational meeting, signal everyone in a patrol that their dinner is ready and they should stop what they're doing and get ready to eat, giving a heads up to the Chaplain's Aide that he needs to get ready.

 

There are no "easy" POR's, but there are low/easy expectations about them in some of the troops.

 

As an officer in Civil War reenacting, the most sought after reenactor at every event (and when I get one to show up, use constantly throughout the weekend) is the Bugler. Without a good one, I can just about guarantee being horse by the end of the weekend. I would dearly love to have a functional Bugler for my scout unit!!!

 

Stosh

[Bob White]

Whether a task is easy or hard depends just as much on the characteristics that the person doing the task has as those of the task itself.

 

If you believe that a Scout would find little challenge or growth is a particular task then maybe that is somethihg the Scoutmaster should be sharing with the SPL as he counsels him on the leadership selections?

 

The puropse of the POR is not to fulfill the advancement requirement, The purpose of the advancement requirement is to help the individual scout grow, The POR is simply a tool for that growth.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[BadenP]

The main point of any POR is to teach leadership and organizational skills and all POR's are not equal in teaching these skills, it is not solely to meet a requirement for Eagle either.

 

A scout as he advances through the ranks should have ample opportunities to try his hand at a variety of increasingly more difficult POR's before he attempts Eagle. This is best accomplished by the SM making sure these positions are rotated enough according to the size of his troop to allow every boy the opportunity to hold several POR's during his time in scouts. Allowing one boy to hold the position of SPL for over a year for example means the troop adult and youth leadership are not doing their jobs at promoting leadership skills among the members of the troop. POR's are not supposed to be popularity contests, yet in many troops that is exactly what they have become.

 

Instead of just reading the rulebook scoutmasters need to focus these rules so that they serve the best interests of their entire troop instead of a handful of individuals.

[Frank17]

I would agree that some PORs require more work or are harder than others. We generally try to encourage the younger scouts as Librarian, Historian, Scribe, and APLs. SPL, ASPL, Troop Guides, and quartermaster are generally taken by older scouts, with the rest of the positions being rounded out by the middle of the pack. We occasionally get some switches, as the boys elect and appoint their own representatives (with veto power by the SM), but for the most part it works out well.

[NeilLup]

There is nothing saying that a Troop has to have a Librarian, Historian, Bugler, etc. If those aren't real jobs, don't have them.

 

As far as Scribe, I would suggest that a more modern name for that could be Webmaster. And most Webmasters that I know consider that very much a real job. Alternately, the Historian could be Webmaster.

[Mike F]

First of all, I agree with others no scout needs a POR. The troop needs scouts functioning in PORs in order to function. A scout (or his parents) may want a POR so he can complete an advancement requirement, but they have to earn the opportunity.

 

Our focus is on electing (SPL and PLs) and selecting (all other PORs) the best scouts available for each position. SM consults with the SPL, but the SPL picks his staff. All of our older scouts are expected to hold jobs and most have served in 5-10 positions by the time they turn 18.

 

Our PLC decided years ago that we dont need Librarian, Historian, Bugler, etc., so we dont have a problem with guys trying to find the easy way out. Only once have I assigned a SM-assigned leadership project, because there are plenty of other real opportunities to lead and grow. In my observation, if a scout isnt getting elected/selected for a POR, its because he hasnt demonstrated to the other guys hes ready for it by being a good Asst PL, Patrol QM, etc., which dont count for advancement, but are excellent growth opportunities. On rare occasion, Ill give the SPL a nudge about considering a scout who is a little shy, but has a good attitude. If after training, monitoring, and coaching a scout doesnt step up to the plate and deliver, its pretty likely hell be passed over when the next term starts. Eventually they all mature and are ready to grow.

 

We also use a written contract for each POR and these are tailored to require increasing levels of responsibility and leadership as the scouts advance. For instance, a 1st Class Den Chief is responsible for helping out at Den Meetings, planning a few simple activities, and demonstrating some scout skills. To get advancement credit, a Life Scout Den Chief is responsible for planning and running meetings with less assistance from the adult Den Leader. If he doesnt want to work that hard, hes still encouraged to stay with his Den until they cross over into Boy Scouts, but hell need to serve the troop in another way to earn Eagle. Similarly for Instructor, a 1st Class Instructor teaches the things hes told to teach by SPL/ASPL, but a Life Instructor is expected to develop program, find his own resources, and otherwise show significant skill and initiative. On one occasion, the SPL attempted to recruit a scout (who desired a POR for advancement) for one of the more challenging jobs and the scout refused, saying he wanted to do something easier. SPL insisted he needed scout for that particular job and there wasnt an easier one available for him. The scout decided to sit out that term. (Parents wanted me to overrule the SPL and give scout another job. No way.) After cooling his heels in his position as patrol member for 6 months, this scout is back in a leadership position.

 

In summary, our total focus in area of PORs is in running the troop, not on rank advancement. A majority of the scouts step up and meet our agreed-upon requirements to satisfy rank advancement, too, but the real focus is on running the troop. If a scout doesnt meet the requirements for rank advancement in the first term, we work with him to continue to grow. It takes a lot more work from SM Staff and other senior leaders and some trust from parents that we really do have their sons best interests at heart but the results have been remarkable.